A drama to start all dramas

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Furlanìe, Mar 24, 2020 at 9:33 AM.

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  1. Furlanìe

    Furlanìe Well-Known Member

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    I'm already busy looking after my own personal issues and I have no time to play meta games with yall, I just want Furlanìe to be neutral and safe and go on with stuff I actually enjoy, which is RPing economy and small scale meetings and interactions.
    Therfore, before I decide to just take some time off and come back in the future, let's try to solve this in an orderly way.
    Serenierre">@Serenierre Montedoro has no reason whatsoever to be hostile with me other than just "for the lulz" which I'm not interested in at all, we need to agree on a common position on this to get along.
    @Etruria we don't get along that much, but I've tried my best to reinforce the friendly relationship that Furlanìe and Etruria should have for historic and cultural reasons I don't need to highlight.
    Your decision, for example, to put to vote on the suspension of the agreement between ODS and Furlanìe just minutes after I wrote a communication to Eiffelland that you shouldn't have seen IC proves that you have no intention to help me in my objective, so, I'm not sure what to do with you, you just want to be my enemy? There is nothing I can do to change your mind?
    @Eiffelland as we agreed a bunch of months ago, your French minority is there because of the historic trade and cultural exchange between Eif-Ret and northern Gallia through the free city of Tergest firstly, and Furlanìe now, so deciding to cut all cooperation with me needs to have a negative effect on your economy too, having just me suffering from market losses while you can just ignore the consequences totally brakes the game to me, and I'm really disappointed by this.
    Auraria">@Auraria I shouldn't have left the gallian meeting, but I was really insicure and was convinced by some unwanted rumors that you were acting against me behind my back, and of course I lost my mind there as usual. If you reassure me that you are not biased like Lars, and open to changes, I will work harder to try to solve ICly our nations issues to come to a normalisation of our relations, which was my goal from the start, I just don't want to lose more time in useless efforts that I could invest otherwise.

    @Etruria @Eiffelland @Johnston Isle and Natal">@Natal I guess: I can't go on RPing if there is no common ground on what the truth is.
    The Ivar-Grau understanding is a non aggression and trade agreement with kadikistan, the rurikgrad pact is mentioned by the treaty as an example of the level of access my companies have, not as part of the agreement. The IGU was just my latest attempt to find a safe place for Furlanìe, the agreement has been made to have a solid dialogue with the most prominent member of the pact and therfore avoid the possibility of a large communist alliance attacking me while the ODS talks about how large will need to be the shoes that its representatives will need to wear for the meeting where they will decide when to hold a meeting. Not a shift in geopolitics, I can understand part of the IC reactions, but reading more and more sentences about the pact and polesia and my companies just giving up eiffelland blueprints to kadikistan (so they can lose a profitable and crucial eiffellander partner? Makes no sense to me) I'm starting to see some behind the doors communications and coordination which I really do not like.
    Unless we all agree on what is true and what is false, going on talking has no meaning.
     
  2. Nichtstein

    Nichtstein Well-Known Member

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    As a neutral observer without a nation in all of this, I believe you're expecting people to answer way too fast based on your own quick and efficient posting method. Of course, you can make meaningful posts with good content quickly. Some other players need more time.

    Every player has their own posting schedules.

    Plus everybody enjoys their own posting activities.

    You enjoy economy, as you have so said. Well, maybe Lars and Eiffel enjoy holding meetings to decide on meetings.

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    So my advice for you is to breathe in, breathe out, stay away from posting for a day and you'll see your nervous system profit immensely from such a pause.
     
  3. Furlanìe

    Furlanìe Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure you're not far from truth, but I've seen this film already and I know how it could end, so I'm worried, dialogue is the only solution I came up with, hopefully this will be useful, otherwise, as I said too, I'll just take a brake
     
  4. Etruria

    Etruria Well-Known Member

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    With all due respect, I am not the one who has closed all forms of communication. Regardless of that incident, I normally continue playing, following my usual cause and reaction policy.

    Reading a metagame charge, it hurts me more than anything else, I don't consider myself a perfect player and very good at writing compelling stories. But I am loyal to the rules and honest in my game.

    For this reason, I bring this topic dated 3 days before your attempt to baypass ODS as proof of my extraneousness to the accusations. In the topic, at the bottom of the news, there is a clear and transparent reference to further future measures within the ODS. Three days, as reported by the regulations of the ODS common market, is the period of time for which I can block my border to your goods / reintroduce customs duties. After that, as previously announced, in a topic to which you have even replied, I continued my game process.

    For the rest, for me you were wrong to predict the result of your actions with Kadikistan. Before that move, your future as a full-fledged ODS member was certain, indeed, it was natural to expect it, and 3 players can confirm it.
     
  5. Furlanìe

    Furlanìe Well-Known Member

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    I still find interesting that you acted immediately after I wrote that communication, anyway, I was quite convinced you(ODS) where not interested at all in letting me in as our previous negotiations where just me proposing stuff and you giving an unmovable unitary response, ignoring my previous proposal for a meeting to discuss the starting relationship together openly, even ignoring a one sided defence treaty that would have required Fur to protect you, but you wouldn't have had the necessity to protect Fur.
    Anyway this is the situation, I think you miss read, in good or bad faith that's not important, the terms of the IGU, I tried very badly to manage the situation but I have no clear mind nor energy to continue, and I have no interest in further conflict with you and eiffelland in particular (nothing against Johnston isle it's just that I don't know of any economic intetaction between us as of now)
    If you want to cut off trade with me, you can do as you please, but consider that we share a border in land and sea, and such a cut does not hurt me alone, and I'm not comfortable at being the only one actually caring about realistic consequences.

    I don't think me closing private communications with you is really a problem, as I generally prefer in-game events to shape my actions, if you want, we can try again, I can't be part of the ODS, but if you and the rest finally supported a real negotiation, we could find profitable ways to cooperate that would make both happy, the tensions you are fuelling are really annoying and in my opinion an overreaction
     
  6. Etruria

    Etruria Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, I don't know what else to say, I showed that there is no metagame, but I only applied the internal rules of the ODS, announced in a public post to which you yourself commented. If you want, it will be my concern to ask that the moderation take under observation my last days, to verify their legitimacy to the regulation against the metagame . I can not do anything else, I will let others express themselves, I have already said the necessary.
     
  7. Furlanìe

    Furlanìe Well-Known Member

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    Don't be so dramatic... I said a lot more than just that... I give up
     
  8. Auraria

    Auraria Well-Known Member

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    I'm really sorry that the game is turning stressful for you, all things given. I think Furlanìe is an incredible and needed addition to the world and obviously you know that my love for you burns with the intensity of a thousand suns.

    I do want to stress that I do my very, very best to avoid RP on discord. If I talk about Auraria doing xyz, or like death to Kings/Monarchies, it doesn't reflect IC positions of the country. I understand my sarcasm is tough to pick up on so I can be more conscious of that moving forward. Yes, there are elements of IC that wants Monarchs dead, but those elements are far from power.

    As for the reaction and beef that Furlanìe is getting, I think there's a few causes.
    1) You've actually done something. I find that in RP when there's a quiet period (quiet in the sense that even though players are actively posting internal things, there's little overarching/global events occurring) whenever a player makes a big move, they immediately insight tensions that more often than not results in fleets mobilizing. You've made a huge move that gave players the opportunity to take sides, this is the burden of taking a stance, unfortunately.
    2) We don't act in a real world sense. That's the tea on that one, our world just doesn't behave rationally. Otherwise it would be a fairly boring game.
    3) Auraria's narrative is that Furlanìe has fucked our negotiating standpoint. ICly, Auraria is not concerned with the trade agreement, its concerned with the idea of Furlanìe agreeing to proclaim a status quo that, in the opinion of Auraria, can then be expanded to all of Gallo-Germania. Now that a SQT exists, Auraria thinks it will be harder for whatever cabal of horror comes from the Gallian Summit and the ODS to get a better one. I can't speak for others, but when Auraria equates Ivar to the Rurikgrad Pact, it's because of Kadikistan's overwhelming might compared to the others.
    4) Leaving the Gallian Summit was proof to Auraria that Furlanìe doesn't want reconciliation. You've already addressed this, so I don't need to go further, but leaving the summit - even if it is a dumpster fire at the moment - gave Auraria the sweet sweet talking point that our attempt to build a bridge was shot down.

    All in all, the most important thing here is for everyone to have fun. If you want to take a break and let things cool down that's totally cool.
     
  9. Furlanìe

    Furlanìe Well-Known Member

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    Thank you my love, your answer is very useful and appreciated, I will take this into account for the next diplomatic moves of Grau, I think I'll have to take that pause, although I'll hate it because I'm still very in love with Furlanìe and my brain is just flooding me with ideas 24/7, but it's getting too stressful
     
  10. Beira

    Beira Well-Known Member

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    I will be posting this, even though you mentioned Natal because I'm too lazy to switch accounts. But Natal didn't comment or do anything against Furlanie, especially when Natal still continues to trade and enjoy it's investments in the Special Economic Zones of Kadikistan. Let's not forget that Eiffelland too has those, hence I wouldn't know what to say or why Eiffellander companies would suddenly hate Grau for signing an SQT. But in the end, even if the ODS cuts the free trade accord, I don't think it will make that great of a problem to either Furlanie or the ODS nations, as the accord is very young, only a month or two old, hence probably it's impact was quite limited already.
     
  11. Nichtstein

    Nichtstein Well-Known Member

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    Furlanìe">@Furlanìe Take a 24 hours timed break and you'll see that those ideas of yours will mature into something even better than when you post every hour or two.
     
  12. Johnston Isle

    Johnston Isle Active Member

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    I lurk alot cause I have more time to be able to be on the site via my phone than I do at home....I despise posting from my phone. So my reply now will be just kinda simple cause I'm on my phone.

    While we haven't had the chance to iron out our trade, (I'm not as quite in depth in some of the aspects economically you are and Visa versa). I would assume there is some, as the country is quite free market based, hence the discussion my ambassador is putting forth, cause it's not in the manner of my nation to act hastily without the facts/dialogue unless it's a rapidly evolving issue.

    I do use discord and messenger for the ease of use, but it's more for the finer details to make things simple on the parties involved in whatever plot may be working out (ex: death of my monarch in Auraria). It's more so to work out the finer details of certain things in a simpler manner (character names, a basic concept behind a plot line so other party has the information and approval beforehand etc)

    Definitely understand the stressful situation your under in your area in Rl. Can promise, it's no grand conspiracy, I was honestly expecting nto see the Grand Duchy moving more towards full membership status with its withdrawal nfrom the gallian summit and other events, so when I saw what had happened it was quite the shocker. Went on vacation preparing to open arms accept Furlainie, come back to wanting to treat it like Cuba during the missile crisis for an agreement with what my country has been positioning itself to call the anti-christ itself.

    Fyi, I feel dirty for posting such a long message from my phone. I am a dirty phone poster now @Sylvania
     
  13. Furlanìe

    Furlanìe Well-Known Member

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    As I said it looked obvious to me that ODS was not really interested, and from Lars' retoric I'm even more convinced about this now, but I understand your point of view, we just lived the situation differently and that's fine.
    I must correct you tho, it's no Cuba situation, that's an exaggeration I don't understand, as Ovi pointed out even eiffelland has economic cooperation with Kadikistan, de facto the treaty just puts some more economic cooperation on the table and an agreement not to pew pew at each others, of course it means more, but that more is just more communication between the blocks, I just want to be a point of meeting, there are no kadikistan rockets in Grau, it's not written anywhere, I could understand you pumping up the situation to make some interesting RP, but it's a kind of RP I'm not interested in, nor capable of sustaining, I'm a man of human interactions and economy, not pew pew, although moving around ships is cool *BUT* just as a theatrical means to shake the situation from a stalemate or in self defence.
     
  14. Tyskonia

    Tyskonia Well-Known Member

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    I will add to a point that Jurzy made on the fact that you actually did something and that has advanced several plots. My own point of view which isn’t entirely shared yet because I haven’t found time between mapping, RL, and figuring out how to share it via posts... is that Furlaníe committing to an SQT with Ivar and alongside Serenierre beating the drum of war has highly increased the odds of the Gallian Summit to fail and additionally lessened the role that the Dual Monarchy wants to play in it. Should the Gallian Summit fail, it is likely that the Dual Monarchy would’ve committed itself to trying to make its own deal with Ivar following your lead on that subject. Things are just developing much slower in other parts of the world.
     
  15. Furlanìe

    Furlanìe Well-Known Member

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    Since we are here talking about everything, is mapping very complicated? Because I always thought about helping out but I'm not sure I have the competence, and I'm only able to use paint.net
     
  16. Tyskonia

    Tyskonia Well-Known Member

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    I don’t find it complicated, just time consuming... but it’s more art than process as well. Each mapper is good at certain kinds of things and has a certain kind of presentation style. Just doing basic updates actually isn’t so difficult, but I also try to add to the map in hopes that map improvements can also improve RP or at the least RP possibilities.
     
  17. Furlanìe

    Furlanìe Well-Known Member

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    If you think I could be of any help count on me
     
  18. Ambrosia

    Ambrosia Administrator

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    I’ll echo Nichstein in saying taking time off from an issue will bring clarity, and echo other players who recognized that Furlanie making that deal with Ivar caused a lot of commotion. It spurred RP and reactions, just not the ones you wanted or expected which is something we can all empathize with.

    Engellpox RP from over a year ago did not go how I expected it to, and it caused some OOC issues, but after walking away from the keyboard and coming back my goal was to prioritize myself and everyone getting back to RP rather than getting stuck on details and interpretations of statements. That’s not always easy, but it should be the goal.

    If I were one of the players you called out in your original post I might take issue with you demanding them to align or act/RP how you want them to. They could if they wanted to surely, but I’m not sure that they should be forced to. I hope that makes sense.
     
  19. Furlanìe

    Furlanìe Well-Known Member

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    I see your point and nichstein's, but I prefer to try and find a solution before shutting everything down, it's healthier in my opinion, if I were to leave the forum for some time I'd just get back with the same preconceptions about the people I'm having issues with, and I would end up in the same situation very soon, I actually think this thread is helping me understand the situation and letting me decompressing some ideas and feelings, I even feel a bit better now, and if I can't manage to find a solution, as I said, I'll take that break.
     
  20. Eiffelland

    Eiffelland Well-Known Member

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    First of all, @Furlanie , I would be very sad to see you go, even if it were for a short period of time.

    From an IC-point of view, the situation is the following:
    1. I did not impose an economic boycott on you. I only put a cooperation with your machine construction company on hold.
    2. Indeed, I invested in Kadikistan's economic free zone. I am there to drill for oil, ores and gems.
    3. Please be aware of the fact that, if you close an economic deal with Kadikistan, you close an economic deal with the Rurikgrad Pact.
    4. I do not think that you will sell blueprints to the Rurikgrad Pact. I have ICly too much confidence in you to think that you won't do such a thing. However, I am afraid, and very much afraid, that, if you sell machines to Kaidikistan, one or more of those machines will end up in Polesia. After the Polesian car company Folxmashin reverse-engineered and then copycatted three Eiffelloretalian car models, I am very hesitant about selling high-tech devices to Rurikgrad Pact countries. I am very happy to treat high officials from Rurikgrad Pact countries in the luxurious departments of my university hospitals (pecunia non olet, not even red money), and I am also very happy to treat an Ostmarker firefighter with massive burning wounds in one of my university hospitals and make sure that I will get a lot of publicity on that, but I will never sell high-tech hospital equipment to Rurikgrad Pact countries out of fear of copycatting Polesians.
      By the way, this reverse-engineering is IRL what some Chinese companies do, and it is IRL also what some Japanese companies did in the 1950s and 1960s (a Dutch comedian even joked about that when Saudi-Arabia stopped oil deliveries to the Netherlands in 1973 because of Dutch support for Israel: "Do you know why Japan gets oil? Because the Japanese threatened to copycat it.").
    In any case, after Polesia copycatted three of my car models, I think I have more than enough reason to be paranoid about the Polesians.

    I do think that there is a way out of me putting the cooperation with your machine construction company on hold though: If your machine construction company does not sell products containing Eiffelloretalian patented techniques (so Eiffelloretalian techniques aged 20 years of less) to Rurikgrad Pact countries, I am happy.

    Now the political part. The ODS considers the Rurikgrad Pact a threat. We don't have a problem with discussing things out with Kadikistan, and we understand the need to prevent war, but we don't consider Kadikistan friendly. Kadikistan's interest in other cultures can be quite overwhelming from time to time, at least in Eiffelloretalian eyes. Therefore, even if your Status Quo Treaty does not lead to Rurikgrad Pact troops in your country, we are concerned.
    But maybe also here is a way out, in which we start discussions with the Rurikgrad Pact about guaranteeing your neutrality. Nous traiterons de vous, chez vous, sans vous (we will negotiate about you, at your place, without you)

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