A Map of Europe

[Khemia]

[MENTION=1802]Heroquoia[/MENTION] Nice changes. I still feel that Far Toyou can be broken apart into numerous islands, each capable of being a nation in its own right. Japan is probably the most popular Asian ethnicity that can be played, and having that ethnicity monopolized in one nation because there's only one geographic region that mirrors the real world prevents us from getting more Nipponophiles into Toyou. At least, potential Nipponophiles, who's to say whenever we'll get one.

[MENTION=635]Sikandara[/MENTION] I definitely don't want to lose an active neighbor with history as tied into Yujin as Sikandara is, since if that happened I would have no reason to play Yujin anymore aside from what reasons I give myself. It's a goal to increase the border we share, potentially have you as the "India" to my "China", though again I aim to remake Yujin into something that doesn't monopolize Chinese culture but instead forms a subset, to allow other Sinophiles to play as well.

[MENTION=1679]Sixia[/MENTION] I agree with the black and red. I feel the green could be interesting and stimulate RP, if occupied by an active. Similar to Hormuz for Iran stimulates real life stuff. That said, any country which occupies an obviously strategic geographic region should be smaller in size - you claim something high value, you get less pixels.

[MENTION=11]Carentania[/MENTION] Actually, with the map as-is, we could say that Islam originated on the island between Himyar and Near Toyou and expanded in both directions, spreading with it Arabic-ish culture in both directions. You can relegate Near Toyou to Central Asian (Turkic), Persian, Afghan and Indian ethnicities, while north Himyar can be Semitic and North African. Go with a "the Caliphate was a thalassocracy" style thing. Which would also pair with "Islam spread by trade"

 

[Portusgalia]

Seems pretty nice to me... I like this map.

 

[Salen]

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I have taken care of some (most) of the latest comments and remarks but I'll post a broader explanation in the morning, too tired atm. Anyway you can check out the alterations already and perhaps 'spot some new features'. Good night all.

 

[Oneida]

let me first begin with: this is map is ridiculously promising. I am really enjoying the work I am seeing here. Good job everyone!

The only thing I have with it is Occidentia comes off as awkward to me. Unless I'm completely wrong (and I totally can be) it would appear to me that most of our active players would be settled around the coastline of the Southern Sea and Toyou. Given the geography, it kind of creates a circle that Occidentia is notably on the outside of. I don't know, this is just an observation.

 

[Khemia]

Insular Himyar could be pushed into the Southern Thaumantic Ocean instead, with some sporadic islands added to replace its current location. The problem is - what goes there? I know that I, personally, would like to put a Ligurian/Amazonian fictional ethnicity there, but I doubt brand new people would think of that.

 

[Sixia]

I'm sort of inclined to agree with Yujin, if only to distribute landmass more evenly and not have a large Southern Thaumantic Ocean. I have no particular opinion on ethnicity.

I looked at Far Toyou and am glad that the island has been broken up, I thought the island was too large and too round. I might actually be inclined to play there as a Nipponphile but without the burden of being the only Japanese nation (discounting Togoku should the Anti-State cease to exist - though they're an oddball nation). However a thing I notice about Far Toyou is, at least psychologically, it seems far away from Erofa. Nations in Far Toyou would need to traverse the Jade Sea, Long Sea and Southern Sea to make contact with Erofa. I can't help but think this will deter relations with Erofa due to its perceived remoteness when they have to take a detour around Toyou fat ass peninsula to get to the Long/Southern Sea instead of taking the shortest possible route.

Actually the shortest route would be through the north in the Implarian Ocean, even shorter if we actually account for the map projection distortion.

 

[Khemia]

I'm sort of inclined to agree with Yujin, if only to distribute landmass more evenly and not have a large Southern Thaumantic Ocean. I have no particular opinion on ethnicity.

I looked at Far Toyou and am glad that the island has been broken up, I thought the island was too large and too round. I might actually be inclined to play there as a Nipponphile but without the burden of being the only Japanese nation (discounting Togoku should the Anti-State cease to exist - though they're an oddball nation). However a thing I notice about Far Toyou is, at least psychologically, it seems far away from Erofa. Nations in Far Toyou would need to traverse the Jade Sea, Long Sea and Southern Sea to make contact with Erofa. I can't help but think this will deter relations with Erofa due to its perceived remoteness when they have to take a detour around Toyou fat ass peninsula to get to the Long/Southern Sea instead of taking the shortest possible route.

Actually the shortest route would be through the north in the Implarian Ocean, even shorter if we actually account for the map projection distortion.

I think that Toyou nations should look to making allies with the nations of 'Erofa' (can we come up with an alternative, I don't want to get used to this name) in order to base ships there. Japan's real world isolation was the reason it was able to take over nearly all of the Pacific without much resistance in a matter of months. Plus, that isolation can make a Toyou nation a valuable ally - the enemy would be hard pressed to impact the homefront of a Toyou nation without making Toyou alllies of their own. And thus, we begin to shape new dynamics for Toyou relations. The problem is that all of the monarchies ally together because of ideological reasons when in reality monarchies rivaled each other for prestige and power.

 

[Khemia]

Private message me how you would like your spot to look like, based on that, I'll make my own beta-spot. Right now its very difficult to see how the spots could be like.

I'm not too hot on "Erofa" and I think we should stick with Gallia, Germania, and Scania for the Eurodisney region.

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I was going to private message you, but I think this is useful here too. Perhaps we should sort've define where major ethnic groups are, so people have a vague idea of where they should try to be without unnecessarily justifying how their people got there. Ofc, people aren't pigeonholed into this. If someone wants to be Chineseish and Chineseish area is full, they can ofc go to Koreanish place if no one wants to be Koreanish. Filling this map actually felt very natural, there aren't weird spots where people who aren't RL in proximity to each other are located in proximity here. Remembering that the Mughals were Mongols will help you rationalize why they're closer to Indianish than to Chineseish.

Anyways, [MENTION=635]Sikandara[/MENTION], the red is where I think I'd be, the blue is you - "Xianbei" would be transformed from a desert-ish place to a semi-arid coastal zone. Sikandari influence there would be even more important because it gives them strategic access to another sea. It, and most of my other provinces, will have to be renamed. By the way, [MENTION=1802]Heroquoia[/MENTION] can you provide an unlabeled map so I can draw something less ugly? I was gonna get fancy but the text messed with me and I couldn't even.

 

[Sixia]

[MENTION=945]Yujin[/MENTION]: That's an interesting idea on relationship dynamics with Eurodisney, though I'm not sure how it would help to have Toyou-based ships be docked in Eurodisney, especially if countries are primarily interested in regional dominance/control of Toyou. Though I suppose having an Toyou ally effectively means you can assert some control over Toyou indirectly through that alliance. We'll have to see how it turns out.

Also helpful map. Based off that ethnic map, if I were to pursue an Asian nation again (probably will) I'd be playing either on the Korean peninsula or the island above Xianbei, which might also incorporate some land on the mainland which could connect to Sikandara, unless someone else wants to involve themselves more heavily with Sikandara in that area.

 

[Khemia]

Well, Sikandara controls Xianbei region by proxy, so you wouldn't need a border to interact closely with him.

 

[Salen]

Well, Sikandara controls Xianbei region by proxy, so you wouldn't need a border to interact closely with him.

The blank map! ; )

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[Serenierre]

[MENTION=945]Yujin[/MENTION], great work. My only concern is that SKD is not Indian... its more Turko-Persian than Indian... I haven't RPed having any Hindus and ethnically have thought the Sikandari to be more like a mix between Central Asian and Persian. Maybe if the Indian group was moved to the islands just where you've written "Thai, Malay" things would be ok. Otherwise I agree with the general parameters of the spot and find the new dynamic for Xianbei interesting.

 

[Salen]

We don't necessarily have to include all ethnicities and culture groups of course. Chances are likely that for instance the 'Pinoy' and 'Burmese' will not be picked by any new or senior member. Broad groups and interpretations should be kept in mind, I believe. Otherwise we might we are too fixed again on 'representational realism' that in turn could limit role-play options.

 

[Serenierre]

@Heroquoia I agree.

 

[Salen]

Third Version

Update: Third Edition (29/5)

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• Map sized up a bit: results are that all landmasses have moved up north, making Himyar, the Occident and Toyou more in the designated 'tropical climate zones', whilst our European and Sarmatian continents have the usual boreal climate feeling.
• Additional result is the Snieg Ocean near the Antarctic region.
• 'Round Island' in Western European continent has been adapted; more inlets and bays added for a more distinctive appearance. In addition the Peni.sula in the North has been cut (haha sorry), making it an island. Though I consider 'ugliness' not be a proper argument to alter map shapes, I could however relate to these given examples. However, the ambiguous strait between Southern Europa and Insular Himyar has been preserved. In this case I am with Yujin on the matter and believe strategic points are to be kept for role-play.
• Far Toyou: grand island has been split into three medium-sized islands, with additional surrounding islets. Hopefully this settles the prospects on expansion and development in the East but again I am available for comments.
• Occidentia has been moved to the left a bit due to the map enlargement. It has been mentioned before that Occidentia might be excluded somehow, personally I don't feel the Occident will get neglected (due to distance); in general I would like to express my sympathies for colonial and overseas expansion on all territories: meaning the Occident and Toyou do not necessarily have to consist of emancipated states and republics, but may easily - same with Himyar - contain colonial lands or possessions.

Once more: I don't consider 'ugliness' to be a genuine argument, so please provide some additional arguments why a region ought to be altered. Concerning esthetics I can only state I don't 'like' our real world map appearances either: where tiny and thin Panama all of a sudden hits colossal South America? The strange shape Europe has as a continent etc. =)

 

[Salen]

(I'll be honest; I have no idea whether double-posting is actually allowed. If not a mod may simply delete this.)

Some name proposals for our European landmass:

• Adinia: from former German Adenauer who is considered to be one of the founders of the European Union (other founding fathers had somewhat more difficult names to 'Latinise').
• Albia: from the Latin 'alba', meaning 'white'.
• Alissia: (or Alyssa, Alyssia or other derivatives); common female name meaning 'sanity' actually..
• Borelia: from the Latin 'borealis', meaning 'northern'.
• Carelia: (or Carolia), derived from Charlemagne's Latin name 'Carolus', another historic figure who once ruled a great portion of Europa and subsequently considered a unifier of Europe/Christendom.
• Illia: another name for the mythological Rhea Silvia, mother of Romulus and Remus, founders of Rome. So a reference to the origin and founders of European classical society and culture.
• Rhea: Rhea Silvia (see above).

We should keep the terms Gallia, Germania and Scania for its sub-regions!

 

[Khemia]

[MENTION=945]Yujin[/MENTION], great work. My only concern is that SKD is not Indian... its more Turko-Persian than Indian... I haven't RPed having any Hindus and ethnically have thought the Sikandari to be more like a mix between Central Asian and Persian. Maybe if the Indian group was moved to the islands just where you've written "Thai, Malay" things would be ok. Otherwise I agree with the general parameters of the spot and find the new dynamic for Xianbei interesting.

Well, I figured Sikandara was more like the Persianized cultures of Afghanistan, perhaps Pashtun, maybe with some Punjabi, rather than Uzbek. If I'm wrong, let me know. That said, Indian-ish can always be moved southwards into the gap north of Burmese-ish, and Persian can be moved east, and Arabish can be expanded to be included in Near Toyou as well.

Update: Third Edition (29/5)

• Map sized up a bit: results are that all landmasses have moved up north, making Himyar, the Occident and Toyou more in the designated 'tropical climate zones', whilst our European and Sarmatian continents have the usual boreal climate feeling.
• Additional result is the Snieg Ocean near the Antarctic region.
• 'Round Island' in Western European continent has been adapted; more inlets and bays added for a more distinctive appearance. In addition the Peni.sula in the North has been cut (haha sorry), making it an island. Though I consider 'ugliness' not be a proper argument to alter map shapes, I could however relate to these given examples. However, the ambiguous strait between Southern Europa and Insular Himyar has been preserved. In this case I am with Yujin on the matter and believe strategic points are to be kept for role-play.
• Far Toyou: grand island has been split into three medium-sized islands, with additional surrounding islets. Hopefully this settles the prospects on expansion and development in the East but again I am available for comments.
• Occidentia has been moved to the left a bit due to the map enlargement. It has been mentioned before that Occidentia might be excluded somehow, personally I don't feel the Occident will get neglected (due to distance); in general I would like to express my sympathies for colonial and overseas expansion on all territories: meaning the Occident and Toyou do not necessarily have to consist of emancipated states and republics, but may easily - same with Himyar - contain colonial lands or possessions.

Once more: I don't consider 'ugliness' to be a genuine argument, so please provide some additional arguments why a region ought to be altered. Concerning esthetics I can only state I don't 'like' our real world map appearances either: where tiny and thin Panama all of a sudden hits colossal South America? The strange shape Europe has as a continent etc. =)

In my experience, both in the past as a former forum cartographer, and as well as a RP'er, I can say that the aesthetics of land has a significant impact on whether or not it will be occupied. When someone joins a forum, they typically have 3-4 ideas of what they want to RP as. Show them a map, and they're going to rule out the ideas that fit into ugly regions. If we look at Occidentia, where colonies are claimed, people typically go for nicer looking areas because they aren't confined by ethnic constraints. For the "English Island" south of the Gothic Sea, there are two main issues. First, there's only two islands, and cartographers don't frequently make it so that two nations occupy a single island, so there's only 2 instances for people to copy-pasta England into RP (not a lot of people are that original, so the stereotype of England being an Island is almost always translated into RP - along with many other stereotypes). That also means that Scotland and Ireland analogues have to compete for those. Our history with Gaelics though says that they tend to be willing to look at non-Islands. Anyways, the second problem is that the northern island is too fat and bulky. If people choose to occupy an island, they want to feel close to the coasts. The centroid of that shape is almost further away from the coast than most of the peninsula's on the mainland. You could get rid of this by adding a Bristol Channel style feature that cuts into the island some.

(I'll be honest; I have no idea whether double-posting is actually allowed. If not a mod may simply delete this.)

Some name proposals for our European landmass:

• Adinia: from former German Adenauer who is considered to be one of the founders of the European Union (other founding fathers had somewhat more difficult names to 'Latinise').
• Albia: from the Latin 'alba', meaning 'white'.
• Alissia: (or Alyssa, Alyssia or other derivatives); common female name meaning 'sanity' actually..
• Borelia: from the Latin 'borealis', meaning 'northern'.
• Carelia: (or Carolia), derived from Charlemagne's Latin name 'Carolus', another historic figure who once ruled a great portion of Europa and subsequently considered a unifier of Europe/Christendom.
• Illia: another name for the mythological Rhea Silvia, mother of Romulus and Remus, founders of Rome. So a reference to the origin and founders of European classical society and culture.
• Rhea: Rhea Silvia (see above).

We should keep the terms Gallia, Germania and Scania for its sub-regions!

In cases where the original post has been seen by a number of people, or the topic of the posts is vastly different, double posting is generally ignored. If you're abusing it to increase post count (which is pointless because we don't have a post count requirement for RP) then you'll be warned. Anyways, I like Illia for the Italian region, and Carelia for the main chunk of Europe (as opposed to Erofa and Europa - especially since I think our planet is named Europe). Spanish, Balkan, and English can come up with their own names, and Gallia, Germania, and Scania should be used still.

Actually, could we just flat out rename the planet to Illia? It reminds me of Illium, and I like Mass Effect.

 

[Socialist Commonwealth]

I'd advise against making the map too big and rather reduce it in size, as too much empty space has been rather discouraging for RP in the past and people tend to be more active if bordered by active people themselves. Smaller, more active continents are advisable.

 

[Khemia]

I'd advise against making the map too big and rather reduce it in size, as too much empty space has been rather discouraging for RP in the past and people tend to be more active if bordered by active people themselves. Smaller, more active continents are advisable.

He increased it only insofar as it allowed him to move the equator and tropics further south. (He added more ocean in S. hemisphere) It makes sense and as a geographer I like that move. Now, most of the active nations will be at or near the 40 degree N. latitude, with less well-off nations near the equator.

 

[Pelasgia]

Actually, could we just flat out rename the planet to Illia? It reminds me of Illium, and I like Mass Effect.

Perhaps Ilium (Ίλιον) like the alternative name of RL Troy?