Auraria 4.0: The Nation Without A State

Discussion in 'Worldbuilding & Wiki' started by Auraria, Oct 2, 2019.

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  1. Auraria

    Auraria Well-Known Member

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    The Basics
    Official Name: The Workers' Federation of Auraria
    Unofficially: Auraria
    Denonym: Aurarian (people, language); Aurarine (things from the country)
    Language: Aurarian (Spanish), Tauritanian (Catalan)
    Religion: Agnostic, Atheist Tiburan Catholic


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    Facts:
    Population: 41,250,000

    Capital & Largest City: Solis

    Main Cities: Tauritania, Navales, Amusco, Hadigualis, Valvederon

    Government: Anarcho-Syndicalist Federation of Workers' Councils
    National Federation of Labor: (Federación Nacional del Trabajo, FNT) is the sole union in a nation were unions are mandatory. It's large bureaucratic structure from the local to national level allows it to deliver public services, administer the nation, and provide for the public defense. In essence, it serves as the Government.
    General-Secretary of the FNT: Manuel Sanabria
    First Deputy General-Secretary: Hadija Zamora
    Secretariat for Foreign Affairs: Sebastián Orenes

    Legislative Body: The All-Workers' Congress

    Judiciary: The Central Adjudication Council


    “A beber y a tragar, que el mundo se va a acabar”
    (Here’s to drinking and swallowing, for the world is going to be finished, unknown 1939)


    In 1817, King Alfonso IV famously declared that the Aurarians are a “docile, yet unruly lot.” Two years later, his head was chopped off along with the entire royal line at the commencement of the Aurarian Revolution. Auraria is a country that one time crowned the most powerful King who ruled an empire that spanned several continents. It’s the place where ten years of bloody revolution resulted in the deposition of that Monarch and the Universal Declaration of Human Values which outlined the tenets of a modern, liberal democracy. Following yet another bloody civil war that raged for seven years one hundred years after the formation of that radical republic, Auraria today sits as a “nation without a state” under the de facto governance of the National Federation of Labor (Federación Nacional del Trabajo, FNT) who embodies the political philosophy of Sebastián Antoni Cantandor. Auraria is a land known for its wine, beaches, friendly, lackadaisical people with a flair for the unconventional, and its radical political practice.

    Its capital, Solis, is a metropolis of more than three million people in the heartland of the nation and stands as the only true metropolitan hub in the interior as 80% of the population lives within 160km (100mi) of the coast. The second largest city, Tauritania, is the original landing place of the Tiburans on the peninsula and today is the cultural center of the country as well as its largest trading port. Other important cities include Navales on the northern border with Serenierre, Amusco on the southernmost coastline, and the garden city of Hadigualis in the center of rural Elamra. The country’s interior is a collection of rolling hills, forests, mountains, with small villas sprinkled about.

    National Federation of Labor (Federación Nacional del Trabajo, FNT) is the sole industrial union allowed in a nation where unions are mandatory. Founded by Sebastián Antoni Cantandor and organized under the principles he laid out in Cantandorism: It is organized along the ideals of federalism where power is built from the bottom up, workers’ self-management, and mutual aid. Cantandor was inspired by his education in Serenierre, Petites-Pays, Kadikistan, and the Anti-State. The FNT, at the national level, is responsible for coordinating broad economic policy, assessing the needs of the population, providing for the national defense, and handling the administrative duties and public services required of a nation of more than 40 million. The FNT maintains that there is no formal government in Auraria and that it simply exists to protect the “Nation” with the state being contrary to the proper expression of the nation – therefore Auraria is a “nation without a state.”

    Auraria is a Workers’ Federation compromised of more than 8,000 municipalities organized into 78 Comarcas, further condensed into Four Regions which form the Nation. At its base level, political participation comes from the industrial unions / various posts unions. An industrial union is in place for a workplace over 25 employees whereas a vast posts union is for workplaces of less than 25 but more than 5. Workplaces of less than 5 do not need to form a union. Based on geography, the industrial unions of a municipality send delegates to a Municipal Plenary Assembly (MPAs) to discuss the issues of the community, which in turn elects a Municipal Committee to manage the day-to-day administrative duties of the Municipality. MPAs elect delegates to Comarcal Plenary Assemblies (CPAs), a Comarca being a collection of municipalities based on geographies. Similarly, CPAs elect a Comarcal Committee and delegates to the Regional Plenary Assemblies (RPAs). RPAs, just the same, elect a Regional Committee which takes significant task in coordinating the economic and social needs of the region amongst the various entities. RPAs elect to the National All-Workers’ Congress which acts as the national decision-making body of the FNT. The All-Workers’ Congress elects a National Committee to administer the essential duties of a national government. In turn, the National Committee elects the Permanent Secretariat of the National Committee, a core council of Ministers who collectively serve as the closest thing as a Head of State. In charge of the Permanent Secretariat is the General-Secretary.

    The Civil Society of Auraria is based on the belief that the nation is truly liberated from oppressive structures. The Aurarian State no longer exists in the sense of a formal government making decisions, instead the Nation exists as the collective homeland of the Aurarian people. Aurarians themselves are radical peoples known for placing the highest ideals of human happiness as the sole indicator of progress. They are a laid back, friendly people who enjoy the unhurried life of Auraria and are wary of control and strong institutions.

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    Last edited: Oct 3, 2019
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  2. Auraria

    Auraria Well-Known Member

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    Contadorismo / Anarcosindicalismo Aurriano (Contandorism / Aurarian Anarcho-Syndicalism)
    State ideology in: The Workers' Federation of Auraria

    Ethno-Nationalism
    Core to the philosophy of Contandorism is that Auraria is a “Nation without a State.” Therefore, nationhood in Auraria is defined by the cultural and historical ties that make up the Aurarian identity and the lands in which said people live. This does not necessarily mean that Aurarians view their culture as superior to others but rather that they go to extreme lengths to preserve and celebrate their identity. This results in a society united by the Aurarian culture and one that is extremely resistant to the assimilation of foreigners.

    Workers’ Self-Management / Direct Democracy
    Companies in Auraria are organized on the principles of Workers’ Councils to make core decisions on how to best utilize the assets of a company. Nation-wide economic planning is coordinated by the National Federation of Labor (Federación Nacional del Trabajo, FNT) which structure is based on the principles of federalism and direct democracy to empower workers to govern themselves. While Auraria lacks a state in a tradition sense, the FNT’s bureaucracy and structure delivers and provides the services of a national government while working in an anarchist model of “bottom up” style organization. In an effort to undo years of political centralization in Solis, Auraria makes every attempt to allow the municipalities to determine their own customs and codes of conduct.

    Collectivization
    While all companies, in a way, are private in that the individual workers of it are the owners, certain industries deemed “critical to the function of the nation and supplement of human welfare” i.e. natural resources and critical economic assets and welfare are coordinated by the National Committee which also organizes the industries on a federalist structure but takes a much more active role in the administration of these businesses than it would businesses deemed non-essential to the survival of the nation. In this way, the FNT assesses the ability of the nation to provide and the needs of the country.

    Anti-Clericalism
    Since the destruction of the Crown and the founding of the Republic to the ultimate removal of the republic and dismantling of the State, the Church has been viewed in great suspicion by the FNT. Seeing the Church as inherently linked to the Crown, to the oppressive structures of the Republic, the FNT seeks to remove and renounce all facets of the church from public life. While the historic trends of burning churches and bibles, publicly humiliating priests – to even hunting them down and killing them – have subsided, religion is stigmatized and repressed by the FNT.

    Universal Declaration of Human Values / Beacon of Human Liberation
    Aurarians often point to the system of Contandorism as being the “completion” of the radical, revolutionary ideals spread by the Revolutionaries in 1819 that overthrew the Monarchy. Even if they are considered outdated, the Aurarians still value the accomplishments of the Aurarian Revolution as defining the basic tenets of what is a modern, liberal state while advocating for the adoption of the “completion” through Contandorism.

    Anti-Militarization / Public Readiness
    In a quasi-dichotomy – one of many to exist in Contandorism – the Aurarians reject a large, standing military as being symbolic of a state structure that oppresses the free will of the people. While the National Committee maintains a “Popular Armed Forces” for the defense of the Nation, it is generally viewed as more preferable to have a large standing militia of individuals prepared to defend the integrity of the nation in times of emergency.

    Self-Reliance
    Achieving autarky through the coordination of “strategically vital” industries by the FNT’s National Committee through its bureaucratic structure is considered a primary goal of achieving a genuinely stateless society. Trading and economic cooperation (or reliance) on foreign, particularly capitalist countries, is seen as counterproductive to the ideals of the nation. Nevertheless, the National Committee has recognized that only a certain degree of autarky can actually be achieved and have lessened the restrictions on trade.
     
  3. Touzen

    Touzen Administrator Staff Member

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    I know we talked about this briefly before on Discord, but I’m raising the issue here again for visibility and because conversations like this should ideally be held on the forum. So trying to implement best practice here by leading by example.

    Basically I seek clarification regarding the recent invitation by Ostmark extended to Auraria. Since Auraria is stateless, and this has been used as a major reason to justify antagonistic RP towards the Anti-State, can I generally expect all nations that are positive towards New Auraria to now be positive towards Touzen?

    If we take the “long term builder” approach, I think it’s paramount to respect established lore such as what I created for the outside perception of stateless entities. I cannot see how this new Auraria would be readily accepted while being virtually run in the same fashion as the Anti-State, while the Anti-State is being treated as an international pariah. Can it then be assumed that the AS is a full fledged welcomed member of the international and leftist community? Otherwise I would kindly ask Jurzy to revert to a more traditional socialist state.
     
  4. Tiburia

    Tiburia Well-Known Member

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    I can see a couple of IC ways for this:
    1. Auraria is supported by most of the socialist states, so it has a much broader base of automatic support. Anarcho-Syndicalism is/can be a much more entrenched ideology than PDism, since it's linked to an ideology (Marxism) that controls half the IC world.
    2. Touzen seems bent on spreading worldwide (at least given the whole Long Sea affair and its diplomatic reaches to nations in Gallo-Germania). By contrast, Auraria (in all iterations) has been RPed as relatively isolationist (and Jurzi himself stated that this iteration is xenophobic, so it's likely to continue this way). Touzen is a massive country with the capacity to take on the world seriously, whereas Auraria couldn't even think of trying. A nation with a weird ideology is much less of a parriah when it 1. doesn't want to export it, and 2. cannot easily export it even if it wanted to.
    3. Culturally, Auraria is linked to many neighbouring countries, as well as former colonies (there are speakers of Aurarian all the way down south in Clarenthia and in our Latin America). Touzen, by contrast, is culturally isolated and insulated from almost every other nation worldwide. This culture shock (which you have previously dubbed racism IC) would be enough to scare people away, 'yellow scare' or not.

    Also, with all due respect, I do not find Touzen to be very isolated IC. PD forces control Coro's nordic country in every iteration so far, and have recently been RPed as dominating his Belgian country. Touzen has diplomatic rapport with Sylvania and Eiffelland. Touzen has bases in Lars, well beyond Toyou's regional borders. Any IC skepticism might originate from Touzen's own conduct (including but very much not limited to the Long Sea crisis). Heck, Touzen basically controls an entire continent, to such a degree that it has made a superstate out of it.

    Finally, you yourself have stated that Touzen is cut off from the global internet and has an internally linked cable system, and is strongly protectionist, in the aftermath of Eiffelland's attempting to leave the LSA summit in Touzen. Auraria, it seems from this concept, has no such limitations; indeed, it would be very hard for it to survive if it did, given the size disparity with Touzen.

    All in all, I disagree with the assessment that Touzen should be automatically more accepted because of Auraria, or that Auraria should change. For all we know, Auraria could be isolated as well, once its RP actually gets going. All this coming from someone who's expressed very clear distaste for "stateless" politics of all kind in the past, so it's not like I'm biased in favour of one brand of post-statismTM over another.
     
  5. Pohjanmaa

    Pohjanmaa Well-Known Member

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    It’s hypocritical because of how similar the Anti-State is. When nations criticize PDists for their “anarchy” it creates a disconnect with the very stateless background of new Auraria that makes no sense other than trying to force a square peg into a circular slot. I can’t help but feel it’s an OOC attempt to make IC things fit while purposely ignoring pre-existing IC constructs.

    I would agree with you if the Anti-State were criticized for other reasons, but it hasn’t.

    The Long Sea affair is occurred not because of an urge to spread, but because the Long Sea powers were threatening to block PDist ships from traveling the region. You weren’t active on the forum, so I don’t expect you to know, but PDist actions in the Long Sea aren’t about spreading so much. The only recent instance of spread has been orchestrated by Pohjanmaa in Loago, something entirely ignored by the entire world.

    Additionally the Long Sea Crisis occurred due to Jurzy having a brain fart and not remembering a conversation we had. Regardless, it’s not important anymore. The Long Sea Crisis is voided now and does not inform our RP anymore.

    But does not explain Nords being treated similarly. It also ignores the fact that the Anti-State has immigrants as well. Jewish ones, German ones, and more!

    It’s basically the Anti-State and Pohjanmaa vs the world. Alliance with Sylvania is on the table, and Eiffelland has worked hard to burn the bridge with PDism as it has diplomatically treated both the Anti-State and Pohjanmaa with contempt.

    Petites-Pays and the Anti-State do not get along historically because Petites-Pays does not fit in with the ideologically purity in the Anti-State.

    PDism isn’t some authoritarian construct. It isn’t forces controlling places. They all operate within in fully functional democracies in the West. I won’t speak for the Anti-State, but it has various levels of democracy across it.

    I’m beginning to think you don’t actually know anything about the Anti-State. The LSA summit occurred in Kashtan. Which is not equal to Touzen in any shape or form. It’s an entirely different country.

    Since I don’t agree with any of your prior assessment, I can’t agree with your conclusion. To be able to fit into the ecosystem of the forum, similar reactions must be seen against Auraria. Anything else is a stunning disconnect to pre-existing RP.
     
  6. Ostmark

    Ostmark Well-Known Member

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    Ostmark's hostility towards PDsm is not just ideological. Ideologically, Ostmark sees PDsm as a hyper-free market capitalist monster, and everybody knows how Ostmarkians feel about free market capitalism after the "Days of Sorrow". Secondly, most of the hostility comes from the fact the Anti-State sanctioned Ostmark and publicly condemned Horst Grasser's regime.

    Ostmark does infact hold excellent diplomatic relations with capitalist countries, even those countries that in the past went to war with the "socialist world" such as Eiffelland and Elben. Both countries have neutral-warm relations with Ostmark. Grasser often stated that he seeks friendly relations and cooperations with everybody as long as national sovereignty and independence are mutually respected.

    The new auraria has indeed an anarcho-syndicalist background, and proclaims itself to be stateless, but it is Workers' state(less), so it's the workers' who are in charge. Ostmarkian National-Syndicalism was born in the factories (Grasser was a humble welder at Ostmarkische Motoren Werke after all), and therefor is sympathetic to those movements that seek to enhance the rights of the working class.

    Grasser has been pushing for some time for a broader unity of the socialist world, for a number of reasons. He is perfectly aware of the fact Kadikistan has for some time frowned upon the spinoffs of marxism-leninovism (such as serazinism and grasserism), and that's why he's been using his connections with the socialist world (and the excellent diplomatic relations with Ivar), to advance his foreign policy agenda and get all socialist countries closer (strenght in numbers, workers of ze world unite etc).
     
  7. Auraria

    Auraria Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for your input all, and I appreciate the questions raised.

    As I stated on discord, my usage of the word “Stateless” was not an attempt to ideologically align Auraria with PDism but to rather ground my brand of Anarcho-Syndicalism in our world’s lore. I thought it would be a nice way to pay respect to PDism’s influence in the region but I now see my idea was horribly misconstrued and as caused problems. As I said to you on discord, because of his misstep on my part, I was dropped “stateless” from the verbiage of Auraria and instead looking for something else. I will likely just side with “Workers’ State.”

    Secondly, I think there are rather significant differences between The A-S’s flavor of PDism and Auraria’s Worker Statism. I think the primary difference is Auraria – as I stated on discord and then got roundly mocked for it – Auraria does not place any sort of emphasis or comradery on the basis of “statelessness.” It does not welcome stateless people into the nation, it does not seek to advance the right of stateless entities across the globe, nor do Aurarians see themselves as stateless citizens. Aurarian Anarcho-Syndicalism is heavily geared on the preservation of the Aurarian Nation and celebration of its cultural identity. Aurarians wouldn’t call themselves “Stateless” they will call themselves Aurarian and identify with the Aurarian Nation.

    I believe you and Coro (Coro even admitted that after reading the concept, it was just communism and not PDism) placed too much emphasis on the stateless aspect and projected that to be the primary rallying card of the nation – this was not my intent.

    I’ve also told you on discord that the FNT was much more unapologetic about calling itself a government than the similar entities of the Anti-State are. Even if the government-structure is similar, there are differences between the A-S and the FNT. There are plenty of RL nations that have similar government structures but aren’t treated the same. The FNT’s goals were to eliminate the bourgeois, nationalize aspects of the economy, collectivize private property, and destroy capitalism in Auraria’s shores to then transfer all power to the working class in an attempt to create the perfect democracy. The FNT believes that while the Aurarian Revolution of 1819 successfully destroyed one tyrant on the basis of birth, it failed to liberate the people from the wealthy/noble/clerical class that continued to remain in power. In this regard, Auraria is far more Marxist than it is anything else. It’s rallying call is the liberation of the working class, not global statelessness. Plus, I have discussed with Serenierre about his country aiding the FNT in overthrowing the Capitalist gov’t and thus establishing a relationship there.

    To recap – I misspoke on “statelessness” and I will drop it because it sent a very wrong message that elicited a sincerely negative reaction. Secondly, Auraria is a Marxist-state, not a PDist one.

    I will drop “statelessness” but nothing else about this concept will change. Auraria is based entirely on the Spanish CNT, the similarities between PDism and Auraria exist only because the CNT and PDism are similarly structured. Since you have stated on discord that you will be seriously pissed if players interact with Auraria, can I ask if you’re going to similarly attack every player who ICly interacts with Auraria?

    It’s exhausting to constantly go through this with you. You mentioned, only once, about some sort of RP to give me a reason to go after Marisillia. You then never spoke about it again, never told me the shadows RP was intended to so, never coordinated any sort of RP goal. Even after I responded, you at no point reached out to explain. Please stop pretending that there was any coordination or that I had a “brain fart.”

    Honestly Coro, I find that more often than not every interaction we have, both ICly and OOCly, goes negative fairly quickly. I think it is best if we create a degree of separation and agree to not interact with one another ICly or OOCly.

    Additionally, I would appreciate if these posts could be moved to a separate thread because I do not want my factbook cluttered with this argument.
     
  8. Pohjanmaa

    Pohjanmaa Well-Known Member

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    1.) We spoke about it once, and then I executed the plan after telling you that I would in our one conversation. I recall even alluding to it being clandestine and in the shadows because that’s where 90% of my RP was at the time. I don’t play the OOC coordination game that you and your friends like to do. I think that ruins an aspect of the game. I might touch base from time to time but I won’t try to hold anyone’s hand through the RP. I want it to develop organically as much as possible. It’s fine you didn’t remember. I felt bad and Xen and I worked very hard not to go to war with you in a way that would make sense IC. Even still you acted sour about it, and that felt like you did not even care that we tried so hard to make an OOC effort for you to not have to RP a war that nobody really wanted. So then it became bad that you didn’t remember. So to recap, you failed to remember (which is ok), got annoyed about it (not nice), was passive aggressive about it (not nice), character assassinated my nation with OOC private clique talk (not nice), and have done everything in your power to make this a shitty experience for myself and Xen (not nice). Sure, some of this is my perception but my vantage point is not illegitimate either. I’m quite sure you have some problems with me and I can accept that. I am not a perfect individual, but at the very least you can accept my motivations and my efforts to keep things peaceful between us.

    2.) There is a reason. You’ve been passive-aggressive to myself and Xen since the Long Sea Crisis began. I understand why you have, and we have put up with this attitude you’ve given us since April. As a person well trained, or experienced in Swedish (and Seattle for that matter) passive aggression, I’ll play that game (I’ll admit to having been passive aggressive in return) with you and be perfectly happy with our relationship as normal and healthy. So I don’t consider us to have any bad blood.

    But if we are going to be direct here, there is a reason I’m very vocal about voiding the Long Sea Crisis and that is because I have zero interest in associating with your RP right now. So I’m already taking steps to separate us despite others urging me that it’s better for their RP to keep it. That said, I’m not going to rain on your parade. I told you outright on discord to continue this Auraria 4.0 project despite our disagreements. I gave you an honest assessment (as you wrote), but also a general view that I don’t think it’s fair for you to proclaim anarchic tendencies and not get IC stick. I want you to enjoy the forum as a safe space and without harassment.

    So I want to make it very clear that I have no problem with you OOCly. You’re an enjoyable person to talk to and even RP with when things are going as you expect. That said, I won’t let you propagate your narrative on the Long Sea issue which erroneously caused a second fight between Louie and I. So I will counter it every time it comes up (as in the case in this thread when Pelasgia wrote about it) so it doesn’t cause future fights with other random players. I think that is the source of much of our problem and I think the voiding of the event is the ultimate agreement to disagree put into action and allows us to move forward ICly and OOCly so that some time far enough in the future we can maybe RP again harmoniously.

    Lastly, not related to your points but 3.) Due to the geography of the space you occupy, and based on your foreign policy desires of the past, it could place us on a collision course to being forced to RP another crisis based on the Long Sea. I will pursue that crisis if it is necessary for IC goals (like sea-routes between the Anti-State and Pohjanmaa). So trying to avoid each other may not work if you decide to pursue those kinds of policies. —Moving this discussion out of your fact book might be best. You do have a good fact book.
     
  9. Auraria

    Auraria Well-Known Member

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    Let’s agree to disagree.

    I will not be engaging with you ICly or OOCly for the time being regardless of whatever scenario develops IC.
     
  10. Tiburia

    Tiburia Well-Known Member

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    You can accuse them of hypocrisy IC but that doesn't make it necessary to alter anything OOC. IRL countries act hypocritically all the time in their diplomacy to benefit their own bloc. Example: USA lambasting the USSR for enforcing dictatorship in Czechoslovakia, Poland and Hungary while simultaneously backing the Greek and Chilean juntas.

    1. Xen's post was based on previous RP, so it's perfectly acceptable to reference previous RP. Nobody has had time to ignore the AS yet.

    2. I won't go into the particulars of the Long Sea affair because 1. I wasn't here and 2. other players have accused you and Xen of instigating/provoking the whole thing. HOWEVER, your response, which included stationing ships in the Long Sea permanently and trying to force Long Sea nations to accept your permanent presence and role there, including a leading role in a proposed Long Sea regional body is expansionist, whether you like it or not. The AS effectively tried to turn the Long Sea into a vassalised region.

    Trated by whom, exactly?

    Immigrants who are the "undesirables" of other countries. Kadikistan doesn't like White Kadikistanis, Pelasgia/Tiburia doesn't like Zionist Jews etc. Having more of these would not improve relations. Besides, the US had plenty of immigrants pre-WWI, and it was still quite isolationist.

    PDism is an ideology. Democracy is a type of government. You can have socialist democracy, nationalist democracy, liberal democracy, or (in Tiburia's case) illiberal democracy. The Socialist bloc also has varying levels of democracy and political systems within it, but it's still a bloc of Socialist countries.

    With regard to Pays-Petites, I'm not sure I've seen any concrete evidence of this difference other than your diplo post, so it remains to be seen how the difference will be fleshed out.

    By Touzen I mean the Anti-State, because the player calls himself Touzen. Excuse me if I don't bother to go into detail on the right nomenclature, but in an OOC thread like this, Xen is Touzen, Kashtan and any other of AS's constituent states for that matter.

    PS: Negativity does not help anyone.

    I wholeheartedly disagree.
     
  11. Touzen

    Touzen Administrator Staff Member

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    Going by the recent emphasis on long term building, I am not sure Anarcho-Syndicalism would exist in this form without Post-Delegationism, which essentially represents the libertarian working class democratic tradition of the likes of Kronstadt, the Makhnovina, essentially surviving the autocratic Marxist turn. If we assume that Marxism-Leninovism has a profound impact on our (ideological) history, it stands to reason that Post-Delegationism has a comparable role.

    I find this cultural isolation thing to be a chifre that is used by people to justify a policy. I also do not enjoy it OOCly, whatever the IC ramifications. Playing the only Asian country and being ostracized is just uncomfortable. Not that the players playing Chinese nations faced similar issues before. Or even Oikawa to this extend. This is squarely aimed at me/Touzen. Also it is not culturally isolated at all, having probably the strongest republican and liberal tradition in the entire setting, aside from maybe Auraria or previously the Engells.

    As mentioned by Coro, this is Kashtan. Trade isolation is also a way to ICly explain away the hostility towards the AS, because I could not RP a free market international trading policy even if I wanted to, because of the hostility displayed towards the AS. So my current way around this is to have a large free trade zone - but it's within the post-delegationist sphere, so arguably it is a continent-spanning free trade system. Obviously I would far prefer RPing a different state of affairs.

    Noted, though national identities haven't faded away in the PD sphere either.

    That's appreciated.

    I find that as stated before a bit problematic. Also yes, because admittedly while I use your thread for this (and sorry, I will split this into its own thread), this is also to a large extend about the possible differential treatment of Auraria and the Anti-State. I do not expect the Anti-State to be treated friendly all of a sudden, I expect the treatment that the Anti-State and Auraria receive to be roughly equal if the aggression towards Touzen was, as indicated, based on its "stateless" ideology. So either both are treated as members of the international community or none are, both are cool with me.

    See above. It is about statelessness, as stated by many like you before, I think.

    Untrue. The Anti-State was forced to run freedom of navigation moments because trade with the few countries that trade with it (harking back to the earlier point about being forced to not be a free trade system) threatened to cut this trade through the Long Sea. It was a defensive mission.

    The Legation Coast is actually gonna be quite bustling with immigrants! As the Engellsphere wasn't traditionally appreciative of immigrants and its religious policies unattractive, I see the equivalent of German, Irish etc immigrants actually settling in the designation Legation spots during the late 19th century, and then especially after the revolution when immigration was encouraged and there was a "Frontier" atmosphere at the expense of displaced Sinic groups.

    Kashtan is not in the Anti-State.
     
  12. Tiburia

    Tiburia Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    Is Kashtan not part of the AS or an associate state? I'm genuinely confused here.

    I have to disagree here. The plan involved essentially creating a Long Sea taskforce headed by two countries completely external to the Long Sea to keep it open. Like it or not, that's a clear vassalisation of the region: you're stepping in to enforce a status quo you want, regardless of whether the local countries want it.

    Not sure if they'll be equally willing to settle there, given the culture differences, but best of luck with this.

    There goes the answer. You still RP it, I take it, though. Is it Post-Delegationist? Is it an associate state of some kind? Or is it just a sock puppet?
     

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