Carinthia-Harkány 2.0

Discussion in 'Worldbuilding & Wiki' started by Arcadia, Dec 26, 2017.

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  1. Serenierre

    Serenierre Well-Known Member

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    I imagine the period 1768 - 1831 to be a period of great animosity between us.

    I suggest we have a bunch of wars. Maybe the Peninsular War of 1768 and the Second Peninsular War of 1787 and the War of the Retalian Sea? All ideas.
     
  2. Auraria

    Auraria Active Member

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    What is it about 1738 - 1831 that would bring a heightened state of hostilities between our two countries? I agree that Carinthia and Serenierre would have fought several times and Carinthia definitely would have seen the benefit of breaking the Peninsula off. I'd like to see some kind of even outcome here.

    Perhaps the War of the Retalian Sea could have resulted in the secession of Vinedia, unless he comes back around and has different ideas for history.
     
  3. Auraria

    Auraria Active Member

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    Here are some decisions on C-H's history as discussed via discord:

    1. Carinthian History
    Historically, Serenierre">@Serenierre and Carinthia have been rivals. Two empires seeking dominance over one another to assert control. The focal point of the Serenien-Carintho Rivalry was the Peninsula between us. Tensions mounted over the fact that a significant portion of Carintho and Serenien people intermixed on the peninsula (creating the Carintho-Serenien ethnicity). The Carinthians believed that the territory should rightfully be Carinthian and in 1768, invaded. The First Peninsular War (1768 - 1772) destroyed the Serenien influence in the Peninsula and formally brought it into the Carinthian Empire. This was considered one of the greatest victories in Carinthia's history - however short-lived it was.

    The Second Peninsular War erupted in 1801 (hope you're okay with the time change) as the Carinthians began to realize that the Peninsula was far harder to govern than they originally suspected. The second war was met with a invigorated Serenierre and a Carinthia that was indifferent toward the territory. The result was a crushing defeat that saw the Peninsula once more returned to Serenien control.

    However, in 1828, a third war would erupt between Serenierre, Retalia">@Retalia , and Carinthia. This war, the Great Retalian War, saw a dispute in Vinedia erupt into full blown rebellion with Serenien and Retalian support. This war saw bloody and devastating combat. the Carintho and Serenien Navies collided at sea while the Retalian armies fought with the Carinthians on the land. In the end, after 3 years of brutal fighting, Carinthia seceded Vinedia and signed a status-quo with Serenierre.

    Skirmishes erupted between Serenierre and Carinthia from that point onward, but nothing to the level of 1768-1831. Carinthia entered a large decline as the loss of Vinedia galvanized separatist movements in Harkány and Crotobaltislavonia">@Crotobaltislavonia Carinthian military forces were focused on suppressing rebellions and defending Imperial holdings until 1850, when Crotobaltislavonia officially broke off from the Empire. This erupted into 7 years of absolute chaos before the 1857 Treaty of Unification formally ended the Carinthian Empire and created the Empire of Carinthia-Harkány.

    The early years of the Empire proved just slightly less tumultuous as the last years of Carinthia. Maximillian, the First Kaiser, proved to be a highly ineffective leader and died fairly early on in 1864. Then his nephew, Joseph, claimed the throne as Kaiser Joseph III. Joseph III brought an iron fist to the Empire, he established the Imperial Parliament to bring peace to Carinthia and Harkány, paving the way for the modern government structure. He created "Gemeinwohl" which was a political test that all actions of the Empire must be in the Common Good of all its citizens, not just those of the Crown Lands. He also instituted several reforms and stabilized the economy to allow for the industrial revolution to explode. Progressively minded, Joseph changed several laws to weaken the aristocracy and allow for the growth of a whole new capitalist class that brought immense wealth and power to Hallein and Karcag. While the industrial revolution was stunted, it began to take off. Additionally, Joseph helped restore peace in @Chernovy by supporting the claimant to the throne (correct me if I'm wrong here). He would go on to rule the Empire for 47 years.

    In 1911, after the death of Joseph III, the Parliament began to reassert authority and grow more democratic elements within the Empire - supported by a large and powerful capitalist class. No Kaiser had been able to capture the reverence and power of Joseph III, and capable Chancellors helped grow Parliament's influence. Relations with Serenierre grew until a communist revolution in 1927 changed everything. The idea of communism changed the animosity between aristocrats and capitalists as it became clear that there was an alternative that was far worse.

    So this is what I've established. The death of the Carinthian Empire, the emergence of C-H, its modernization, an emergence of a semi-liberal democratic system, and then a "Red Scare" that helped cool tensions between capitalists and aristocrats. More to come!
     
  4. Chernovy

    Chernovy Well-Known Member

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    Our intrepid young Prince is one Kir (Cyrus) Izyaslavich (-vek in the language of Vyhoric Slavians) of the Chernovit Dynasty. He was second, or third in line of succession originally but was infamously and tragically predeceased by his father and brothers - thus birthing our bildungsroman and prodigal conqueror.

    Likely regnally numbered "The 11th."
     
  5. Serenierre

    Serenierre Well-Known Member

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    I approve of this. Thank you for putting this up.
     
  6. Auraria

    Auraria Active Member

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    Huzzah! Carinthia-Harkany now has a map! This was an absolute pain in the ass to make, but I'm happy that I now have a reference point for what C-H looks like geographically. There's a few points I want to make tho:

    1. @Bergenheim I believe it was established that the reason the Carinthian Empire failed to reclaim Bergenheim is due to how mountainous the region is. To that, I have placed the Kék Mountains along our border. They're not massive, but they're not small either. Definitely makes border crossings difficult.
    2. @Eiffelland and Retalia">@Retalia I decided that the Tiroler River, fed from the Kék Mountains, makes up our border.
    3. Crotobaltislavonia">@Crotobaltislavonia our border is basically entirely mountainous.
    4. Bourgogne">@Bourgogne and Serenierre">@Serenierre I imagine our border as essentially being flat land with strange scribbles making the border.

    1. The Pinka River is the most critical waterway in C-H. It serves as Harkany's only access to the Retalian, and thus broader ocean. Varpalota, on the Tiroler, is not big enough to serve as a port. It was Carinthia's plan to dam the Pinka that lead to the creation of the Imperial Parliament to settle disputes between the two Kingdoms.
    2. C-H is kind of like a large valley with virtually its entire western and northern border being made of mountains.
     
  7. Serenierre

    Serenierre Well-Known Member

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    Awesome map. I imagine going by that geography, we have a lot of economic interaction going on between the Peninsular provinces of Serenierre and Kingdom of Carinthia.
     
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  8. Auraria

    Auraria Active Member

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    The Archduchy of Caphtor
    Erzherzog von Kaptor (Carinthian)
    Főhercegi Kaftorból (Harkaner)

    Concept
    So, what does every good empire need? A colony! Caphtor is designed to fill a fun niche for me, RPing a significantly under-developed country with a smaller population and more social problems. I want to try and explore some new concepts that may not necessarily fit very well if done in C-H proper.
    Essentially, Caphtor is based on Egypt. I know that Pelasgia already has an Egypt, known as Memphis. I'm happy to discuss with him when he comes back, but my head canon is that Memphis and Caphtor, together, make up the ancient Egyptian civilization and are essentially Upper and Lower Egypt if they never united. In this scenario, the Wadjet Sea serves as the Nile. I do have Memphis and Caphtor uniting for a brief period and forming a super empire, but that's only to contribute to the Memphian and Caphtorite debate over who is the best ancient culture and the true inheritors to that Aaru Empire.
    There are two distinct ethnic groups: the Caphtorites, based on Arab Egyptians, and the Khazenites, based on the Maronites. Khazenites are only referred to as Caphtorites by Carinthians - who can't really be bothered to differentiate. Caphtorite society is divided into a three-tiered society with Carinthians being at the top, the Khazenites in the middle, and Caphtorites in the bottom. Overall, Carinthians make up 7% of the population, Khazenites 25%, and Caphtorites 68%. Caphtorites are by and large Sunni Muslim, Khazenites are their own branch of Tiburan Catholic loyal to Tibur.
    Geographically, Caphtor is a massive desert except along the banks of the Wadjet Sea, where over 92% of the population of 30 million lives.
    Economically, Caphtor is underdeveloped and the activity is almost exclusively centered around the city of Josefstadt, on the northwest coast. Being at the mouth of the Wadjet Sea, near C-H, and in the middle of the Long Sea, the city is of critical importance to global trade and vital importance to C-H's trade.

    Core RP Ideas

      • Life under the flag of a distant Empire. How do the Caphtorites, who are the majority, live subservient to the Khazenites, who are themselves subservient to the Carinthians.
      • Combining aspects of Islam and Ancient Egyptian culture. I thought it would be fun for the Muslim Caphtorites to identify strongly with their ancestors and in that sense, combining some ancient Egyptian customs with modern Islam. I may even explore Kapi's old idea of having Muhammad being a woman, as opposed to a man.
      • Some rebel vs. Empire kind of vibes. C-H media portrays the Empire has the best way to live, but I want a more sinister role taking place in Caphtor and some manipulations that C-H puts into play to keep Caphtor in order.
    Basic Information
    Official Name: The Archduchy of Caphtor
    Name: Caphtor
    Capital: Josefstadt
    Largest City: Josefstadt
    Government Type: Constitutional Monarchy; vassal state of the Kingdom of Carinthia
    Heads of State: Kaiser Joseph IV, Archduke of Caphtor (Often times, Caphtorites also refer to him as the Kaiser-Pharaoh)
    Heads of Government: Governor Karl Wahid-Dresdner
    Legislature: General Assembly


    History
    More to come, but generally: primitive river people, powerful ancient civilization, conquered by Pelasgians, conquered by Tiburans, conquered by Muslims, conquered by Crusaders, conquered by Muslims, conquered by Catholics, conquered by Carinthians.

    Population: 30 million


    Ethnicity:
    7% Carinthian
    25% Khazenite
    68% Caphtorites


    Religion:
    70% Sunni Islam, 28% Catholic / Khazenite Catholic, 2% other
     
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  9. Trivodnia

    Trivodnia Well-Known Member

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    Make it Nubian
     
  10. Kadikistan

    Kadikistan Well-Known Member

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    All this unilateral colony picking is all good and well, but how will this new colony fit in the historic SQT rp now that C-H has transformed itself into a Kalahari player?
     
  11. Retalia

    Retalia Well-Known Member

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    This all makes me think that I have not much of an idea whether Retalia/Nichtstein was already in a personal union under Eiffelland back then, or whether it was still sort of independent or not.

    This is definitely something I'd need to flesh out better now that I strolled back on the boards.
     
  12. Retalia

    Retalia Well-Known Member

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    I have thrown a hint of history in a thread which I will start to shape into something that makes sense in the grand scheme of things.

    And that hint is that there was no "Retalia" until very late in history. The area was a collection of independent lordships, all united together into a loose Confederation. Yet, due to internal squabbles and the incapacity to have a single point of power, the informal "confederation" lingered on as the other states around it centralised, forming Carinthia, Eiffelland, Serenierre.

    Then my idea would be, since Vinedia is gone and his pixels are now part of Carinthia anyway, to change the proposed Vinedia War.

    The premise being that Vinedia was one of the Retalian Lordships. The competing interests of Serenierre and Carinthia, maybe Eiffelland, led to a powder keg explosion in the region and a move by Carinthia to draw the Retalian Lordships into its sphere.

    Carinthia moved its forces into Vinedia, the Retalian Lords mobilised, received support from Serenierre. The Lordships, being mostly naval powers, were quite successful at Sea. They kept the Empire and its fleet at bay and averted any threat to the Isles.

    However, lack of a joint military command on land, egoistic interests of the various Lords, outright bribery by Carinthia of some of the Lords, etc etc meant that the combined Retalian armies were routed in Vinedia and retreated across that river, henceforth establishing it as the border in the future.

    This failure of the land campaign, menace from Carinthia, feelers by Serenierre to draw other lordships into its own sphere in the wake of the Vinedian debacle, all that in turn sparked a plot within the confederation to unify somehow. As the Lords could not decide on one of their own, they opted for whoever was the least menacing to their rights, and so they decided to proclaim fealty to the King of Eiffelland. The proclamation was done at Castle Nichtstein, creating the Grand Duchy of Nichtstein.

    This could help explain the old grudge between Carinthia, Retalia and Eiffelland, which I will use as RP scenario to bridge in coming RPs.

    If you are fine with such a rewriting of history, of course.

    Carinthia-Harkány">@Carinthia-Harkány @Eiffelland @Serenierre
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
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  13. Eiffelland

    Eiffelland Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this.

    And now I took the opportunity to look at it with a bit more precision. for the Tiroler River, I agree with that as border river. I have to add though that I RP Northern Eiffelland to be mountainous as well, complete with threethousanders covered with eternal snow. Please see my map below; the province Harz is mountainous with threethousanders, the province Rheinland is hilly.

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    EDIT: Don't worry about the Villach on my map. There is just a Villach in Eiffelland and a Villach in Carinthia-Harkány

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