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July 2021 & Sept 2021 Map Thread - Genius Giulietta

Justosia

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Ok so unlike some of you tech mages, I can't for the life of me figure out how to get a pic of Justosia on here so please bear with me:

Biggest island right off my east coast is Puerta Island. Capital Feruña. Other city Balicia. Please put Feruña on the northeast coast somewhere.

Long Island right below it is Llave Island. Capital & only major city is Sanresso.

Aleutian esque islands to my south are the Sirena Chain. The biggest island, next from last, Santeledo on the coast please.
 
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Jydsken-Østveg

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Ok so unlike some of you tech mages, I can't for the life of me figure out how to get a pic of Justosia on here so please bear with me:

The most western, biggest island in my archipelago is Horizonte Island. Capital & only major city is Targos. Those 6 micro islands surrounding Horizonte are part of it.

Biggest island right off my west coast is Puerta Island. Capital Feruña. Other city Balicia. Those 4 bigger islands surrounding Puerta are part of it.

Big chunky island right off my east coast is Sirena Island. Capital & only major city is Santaledo.

Long Island is right below it is Llave Island. Capital & only major city is Sanresso.

Will also be updating my wiki thread accordingly. Whenever you get around. Please & thanks.
I recommend using imgur.com it’s free, doesn’t require an account either. Otherwise I’ll do my best to follow instructions as written, but you can’t be mad if it comes out wrong :p
 

San Jose

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I wanna thank you, oh glorious map maker, for giving me that extra city BTW. Also I wanna be a true archipelago. So I'm gonna soon RP Naval & Army Expeditionary forces to claim that chain of islands that reminds me of the Aleutians off my southern coast. And both those big islands & the small ones orbiting them off my west & east coasts. Long time coming.

Given their extremely close proximity to Justosia, they should obviously be mine yada yada. I know I gotta RP it. Just letting you know. Also I wanna add cities, 2 Island capitals, to those northern ones I already have. Gotta catch this Lyft to work now. Will elaborate more later probably.
I know it’s been a few days since this was first posted, but unfortunately I must file an official objection to this. Minor adjustments to your original claim or the establishment of a colonial holding have been done by other players in the past with no issue, but this to me is too big to be a minor adjustment and is being treated more like imperialist gobbling up of, essentially, blank territory rather than territory that was historically established to be yours.

In the past, the community has always treated blank spaces like this as either not really existing (until all of a sudden they exist when claimed) or as undefined nations or territories that don’t actively take part in whatever is going on. It’s not a perfect system but it generally works. What you’re doing is, in my opinion, setting a rather bad precedent.

For instance, say I, like you, started claiming a bunch of blank islands in the southern half of the Western Hemisphere, that they’ve belonged to San José in the past but were lost for vague reasons, but now need to be “liberated” (read: conquered). I could have a Caribbean-esque empire established extremely quickly with minimal RP needed.

There’s no written rule against this as far as I know, but it still leaves me uncomfortable and I’d rather the mapmaker reject this expansion of the original claim, or at minimum work with the player to significantly reduce it in size or change how it’s approached to prevent as much precedent-setting as possible.
 

Justosia

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I know it’s been a few days since this was first posted, but unfortunately I must file an official objection to this. Minor adjustments to your original claim or the establishment of a colonial holding have been done by other players in the past with no issue, but this to me is too big to be a minor adjustment and is being treated more like imperialist gobbling up of, essentially, blank territory rather than territory that was historically established to be yours.

In the past, the community has always treated blank spaces like this as either not really existing (until all of a sudden they exist when claimed) or as undefined nations or territories that don’t actively take part in whatever is going on. It’s not a perfect system but it generally works. What you’re doing is, in my opinion, setting a rather bad precedent.

For instance, say I, like you, started claiming a bunch of blank islands in the southern half of the Western Hemisphere, that they’ve belonged to San José in the past but were lost for vague reasons, but now need to be “liberated” (read: conquered). I could have a Caribbean-esque empire established extremely quickly with minimal RP needed.

There’s no written rule against this as far as I know, but it still leaves me uncomfortable and I’d rather the mapmaker reject this expansion of the original claim, or at minimum work with the player to significantly reduce it in size or change how it’s approached to prevent as much precedent-setting as possible.

Work with? Sure. But these islands are very much part of my archipelago. I myself would feel uneasy if anyone but me tried to claim them given their proximity to me. I've been waiting a long time to do this. If the map maker thinks it's too much, I'd of course be willing to file it down. Really didn't think anyone would have an issue with this. I mean it's seldom the chance is there like it is with mine.
 

San Jose

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Work with? Sure. But these islands are very much part of my archipelago. I myself would feel uneasy if anyone but me tried to claim them given their proximity to me. I've been waiting a long time to do this. If the map maker thinks it's too much, I'd of course be willing to file it down. Really didn't think anyone would have an issue with this. I mean it's seldom the chance is there like it is with mine.
Just because they’re part of the geographic archipelago doesn’t mean, in my opinion, they should be considered yours by default, especially if they weren’t included in the initial claim (which is what a majority of my objection rests on). The Aleutian-esque islands to the southwest make sense to me for you to claim, for instance, but the bigger islands to the west and east are large enough to have their own nations. I’m curious why you would feel uneasy about anyone but you claiming them, as that to me is preventing the possibility of new neighbors to RP with.

Another example: if Tarusa wanted to alter his map spot by, say, moving the eastern border a bit eastward for aesthetic reasons, that makes sense, but if he decided that because he’s essentially Russia he needs to be ridiculously large like Russia and claim vast swathes of blank territory to the East because it geographically makes sense, and furthermore RP’d it similarly to a modern day Russian conquering of Siberia, how could that be considered ok?
 

Justosia

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Just because they’re part of the geographic archipelago doesn’t mean, in my opinion, they should be considered yours by default, especially if they weren’t included in the initial claim (which is what a majority of my objection rests on). The Aleutian-esque islands to the southwest make sense to me for you to claim, for instance, but the bigger islands to the west and east are large enough to have their own nations. I’m curious why you would feel uneasy about anyone but you claiming them, as that to me is preventing the possibility of new neighbors to RP with.

Another example: if Tarusa wanted to alter his map spot by, say, moving the eastern border a bit eastward for aesthetic reasons, that makes sense, but if he decided that because he’s essentially Russia he needs to be ridiculously large like Russia and claim vast swathes of blank territory to the East because it geographically makes sense, and furthermore RP’d it similarly to a modern day Russian conquering of Siberia, how could that be considered ok?

I believe I RP'd a very good reason(s) as to why these are in fact part of Justosia. Also I dunno what you mean by original claim. All that is my original claim on that post. Let's face it, nobody is putting a nation there. In the past whenever someone did this it was depressing. Felt like I did something wrong. I don't feel like I'm doing anything wrong this time. Gaining territory, from what I see, seems to come rather effortlessly to everyone else. It's the whole reason I started playing, originally. I don't wanna be unreasonable tho. If the map maker has an issue, I'll file it down.
 

Kvisa

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I think that there are two avenues you can go down with this, Justosia.

A simple fact is that despite stuff being blank on the map, there is no such thing as unclaimed territory in-character. Now, I don't think anyone would care too much if you just asked for the islands OOC (the presumption being that they were always part of Justosia) as an extension of your current territory - as they're rather small and peripheral.

However, if you want to take the RP route of actually annexing the territory, then we need to go a little bit deeper than just saying "oh this was part of Justosia, but now isn't for reasons". Some story as to why it's separate, what government it has, and whatnot. Just as it would be if, say, Cuba decided to annex the Bahamas or whatever today.

Again: it's not about the pixels themselves. If we're telling a story, then let's go ahead and full on tell one. If it's just about the pixels, then I'd rather not set a precedent of roleplaying acquisition of empty land - does that make sense?
 

Kvisa

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I don't think you would! If anything, it creates even more roleplay opportunities!

You've alluded in Orgullo that the islands have a stauncher membership base for the SDU than the mainland. It separated at some point from Justosia proper - why not expand on this, and flesh out the territories? It's relatively rare for countries to just break away like that, so maybe there was more to it, perhaps somebody assisted or sponsored these islands somehow? These are avenues by which you can involve other players, and also expand on your own RP. It's essentially the reason why colonial nations/applications exist in the first place, really - to create RP opportunities, rather than just for territorial expansion.

All I'm personally advocating for is that if you want to take the route of roleplaying this acquisition, rather than asking for it to be added out-of-character, then let's go all out on that!

This is, of course, just my opinion. Final determinations shall be made by our imperious mapmaking overlord.
 

Justosia

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I think that there are two avenues you can go down with this, Justosia.

A simple fact is that despite stuff being blank on the map, there is no such thing as unclaimed territory in-character. Now, I don't think anyone would care too much if you just asked for the islands OOC (the presumption being that they were always part of Justosia) as an extension of your current territory - as they're rather small and peripheral.

However, if you want to take the RP route of actually annexing the territory, then we need to go a little bit deeper than just saying "oh this was part of Justosia, but now isn't for reasons". Some story as to why it's separate, what government it has, and whatnot. Just as it would be if, say, Cuba decided to annex the Bahamas or whatever today.

Again: it's not about the pixels themselves. If we're telling a story, then let's go ahead and full on tell one. If it's just about the pixels, then I'd rather not set a precedent of roleplaying acquisition of empty land - does that make sense?

I suppose that's reasonable.
 

San Jose

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I believe I RP'd a very good reason(s) as to why these are in fact part of Justosia. Also I dunno what you mean by original claim. All that is my original claim on that post. Let's face it, nobody is putting a nation there. In the past whenever someone did this it was depressing. Felt like I did something wrong. I don't feel like I'm doing anything wrong this time. Gaining territory, from what I see, seems to come rather effortlessly to everyone else. It's the whole reason I started playing, originally. I don't wanna be unreasonable tho. If the map maker has an issue, I'll file it down.
To clarify, by original claim, I mean what you requested that was put on the September edition (this latest one) of the map.

I do not intend to depress you or sap any will to RP, but the way this has been approached so far was concerning to me, and I wished to discuss it before proceeding any further. The options Solléga presented are personally reasonable to me because more RP is involved to explain such an unusual circumstance of whole islands peacefully breaking away, and providing opportunity for more conflict in their re-acqusition.

And, of course, if the mapmaker and/or community as a whole has a different opinion I shall defer to them. Again, I don't intend to target you specifically or prevent enjoyable RP, but I did wish to voice my concerns in a, I hope, reasonable way that was not attacking you personally.
 

Justosia

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To clarify, by original claim, I mean what you requested that was put on the September edition (this latest one) of the map.

I do not intend to depress you or sap any will to RP, but the way this has been approached so far was concerning to me, and I wished to discuss it before proceeding any further. The options Solléga presented are personally reasonable to me because more RP is involved to explain such an unusual circumstance of whole islands peacefully breaking away, and providing opportunity for more conflict in their re-acqusition.

And, of course, if the mapmaker and/or community as a whole has a different opinion I shall defer to them. Again, I don't intend to target you specifically or prevent enjoyable RP, but I did wish to voice my concerns in a, I hope, reasonable way that was not attacking you personally.

Not at all you're fine. I think I get the gist. You think there should be some more type of rebellion, difficulty, etc on reunfiying with the rest of the archipelago. Maybe protests but that's where it'll probably stop. I already have a back story in mind with the wiki for these territories. Happy to oblige. Late this evening. Sorry for the double post.
 

Jydsken-Østveg

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Perhaps this is my fault in that I wasn’t very clear on things, but yes the concern expressed is correct, we do not RP with “unclaimed” regions. That said, I wasn’t very clear with that in this thread as I did not find it too problematic as the islands are indeed literally off his coast (the previously described Aleutian-like ones), would’ve mapped them as part of his nation should he have requested in his initial claim.

So to be clear, we all know what the rules are now, but this individual occurrence I’m letting slide as territory he already owns - thus his story can continue, but clearly with a slightly different context.

As far as I know those are the only islands in question and if I’m mistaken, and more and bigger islands are in question, then perhaps there is more to say.
 

San Jose

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Perhaps this is my fault in that I wasn’t very clear on things, but yes the concern expressed is correct, we do not RP with “unclaimed” regions. That said, I wasn’t very clear with that in this thread as I did not find it too problematic as the islands are indeed literally off his coast (the previously described Aleutian-like ones), would’ve mapped them as part of his nation should he have requested in his initial claim.

So to be clear, we all know what the rules are now, but this individual occurrence I’m letting slide as territory he already owns - thus his story can continue, but clearly with a slightly different context.

As far as I know those are the only islands in question and if I’m mistaken, and more and bigger islands are in question, then perhaps there is more to say.
I have absolutely no problem with the Aleutian-esque islands, even in the method it is being RP'd.

My point of concern is the following: "And both those big islands & the small ones orbiting them off my west & east coasts."

I take it to understand that means these two island chains:

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If Justosia is indeed claiming those too along with the Aleutian-esque ones I did not circle but are in the bottom left corner, then does your ruling still apply?
 

Justosia

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I have absolutely no problem with the Aleutian-esque islands, even in the method it is being RP'd.

My point of concern is the following: "And both those big islands & the small ones orbiting them off my west & east coasts."

I take it to understand that means these two island chains:

You must be registered for see images


If Justosia is indeed claiming those too along with the Aleutian-esque ones I did not circle but are in the bottom left corner, then does your ruling still apply?

I wish I knew how to do that. Yes that's what I'm after. Some may as well be bordering me directly.
 

Jydsken-Østveg

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I wish I knew how to do that. Yes that's what I'm after. Some may as well be bordering me directly.
I’ll grant you something on two conditions, and a 3rd point…

1.) You may take the eastern islands. The northwestern islands are in a very key location and would give Justosia near total control of access to the Meridian.
2.) You are expected to add some wiki text on the region.
3.) Extra: If you are looking for more territory, as far as colonies go, you’ll find less resistance to adding territory in places in the middle of nowhere that serve to fill in gaps in the RP community.
 
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