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Map Guidelines and the Basic Colony or Territorial Expansion Process

Tyvia

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Pagan Gallic Confederacy-...

Hey, Galatia was a thing!
 

Jydsken-Østveg

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The first post has been edited to reflect some of the discussion. It’s far less rigid I think, but still maintains a certain spirit.
 

Hesperia

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May I just comment that I, as one who has ignored the drama and discussion of this thread, find it confusing whether these rules apply to all map spots, or just to colonies/moar pixels? That is to say, the OP is ambiguous about this.

You may wonder why I care. Let's just say I am considering.
 

Jydsken-Østveg

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May I just comment that I, as one who has ignored the drama and discussion of this thread, find it confusing whether these rules apply to all map spots, or just to colonies/moar pixels? That is to say, the OP is ambiguous about this.

You may wonder why I care. Let's just say I am considering.

Consider making a map application that will be accepted regardless of formatting known as the Kapi Special. One time offer until this mess is sorted :3
 

Oneida

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Hey there -
We're coming up on almost a month since Saaya has posted this concept. Not only is the concept thought out, it's original in the game and not replicated elsewhere. It's my understanding that he hasn't done anything that's counter to the lore and history of Touyou and he has - again in my knowledge - repeatedly asked if there was anything further he needed to do.

Given that RP is heating up so rapidly, and he's been sitting here waiting for approval for more than three weeks - is this something we're going to expect with the Touyou Ban? There's this concept and others that have either been rejected or are sitting in the ether.

I guess I'm just wondering if there's anything in specific we should expect, I'm not opposed to the Touyou Ban but given the concepts in limbo or rejected, frankly I'm a little concerned about its implementation. Is there anyway to either get the project approved or torpedoed so at the very least Saaya knows what to do next?
 

Khemia

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Thanks for the advocacy @Auraria

Madaray posted a month ago, so a bit longer than myself. Myself, I am mostly frustrated that I am sitting here with my thumbs up my ass reading interesting events and not able to react to them. I understand that Salen and I were both told not to RP, but right now I feel like I'm going to receive my "yes" or "no" approval vis-a-vis the next map update, and not any guidance on how to alter my request or whether or not it's acceptable or how to reform it and the like. I haven't heard any negative feedback regarding my country aside from a "Is @Kadikistani Union ok with the political dynamic." Salen has heard lamentations on Discord about presence of Buddhism, and made changes by reforming Buddhism to be a neo-Buddhist revival akin to RL neo-Roman Romania or neo-Norse paganism and the like rather than an ancient, continuous variation of some historical real-world Buddhism.

Anyways, if it will be a "no" I'd prefer to just hear it now so I can figure something else out. If it is a "yes, but" then I'd like to hear what needs to be changed. All preferably before the next update.
 

Jydsken-Østveg

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Thanks for the advocacy @Auraria

Madaray posted a month ago, so a bit longer than myself. Myself, I am mostly frustrated that I am sitting here with my thumbs up my ass reading interesting events and not able to react to them. I understand that Salen and I were both told not to RP, but right now I feel like I'm going to receive my "yes" or "no" approval vis-a-vis the next map update, and not any guidance on how to alter my request or whether or not it's acceptable or how to reform it and the like. I haven't heard any negative feedback regarding my country aside from a "Is @Kadikistani Union ok with the political dynamic." Salen has heard lamentations on Discord about presence of Buddhism, and made changes by reforming Buddhism to be a neo-Buddhist revival akin to RL neo-Roman Romania or neo-Norse paganism and the like rather than an ancient, continuous variation of some historical real-world Buddhism.

Anyways, if it will be a "no" I'd prefer to just hear it now so I can figure something else out. If it is a "yes, but" then I'd like to hear what needs to be changed. All preferably before the next update.

Xen is currently busy with RL things. I am currently busy with RL things. It’s just an unfortunate series of events, but I do plan for a new map to be released around end of July (if not sooner, but hopefully not later), and currently I’ve received no such approval for anything in Touyou. Xen tells me if something is supposed to be mapped in Touyou, and then via the final editing process with the mapmaking team we decide on last minute changes that could include removals or additions.

From what I’ve last heard Kyiv’s project is being closely worked with Xen as of at least two months ago and thus is expected to be approved because it was developed in close consultation with Xen. That said, I don’t know if it’ll be on the next map or not because I haven’t started the editing process yet.

As for yourself and Salen, I have no further information that hasn’t already been conveyed to you (expect you both know more than I do because you’ve spoken with Xen on the issue) and so you will either need to continue to edit things and speak directly with Xen (whenever it is that he is free from his RL obligations) or decide to move on. Touyou isn’t easy to jump into especially if the basic beginning concepts weren’t discussed with Xen from the start.

Should there be a more direct step by step process like Jurzy suggested in his recent post?

Probably.

However, there is not an interest in the admin, mod, or map team to create this process because ultimately that is extra work for us, not to mention extra headache. Every time we’ve tried to create processes for things there is general outrage (just look at the history of this thread) on a variety of points from why do we need processes for everything, to it being too authoritarian or some other complaint. As it already stands I am reforming the current process which has been complained as too arduous to get simple mapping issues done.

Additionally, there is a problem in that there is a lack of trust in the player base to adhere to a process without trying to game said process and find loopholes and backdoors. We’re a forum full of lawyers and financial advisors from what I understand and it seems by second nature people try to bend rules beyond the spirit of those rules. So ultimately there will be no step by step process that is formal. Perhaps I can attempt to build a informal process that is clear there should not be an expectation for a successful application.

I’d comment on my own perceived problems with the Minh Hai concept, but I don’t want to insert words into Xen’s mouth when he probably doesn’t actually share those concerns. For all we know he’s ok with it in spirit and it only needs a few tweaks. Or perhaps he has massive problems with it and doesn’t have time to write them all up. Honestly, it’s not a topic we’ve discussed seriously whatsoever yet, and perhaps that’s just because I haven’t started the map editing process yet. I can’t say for sure. So ultimately I can understand your frustration, yet at the same time it’s a frustration that you’ve also willingly signed onto by putting all your eggs into one basket... that being this Touyou project. After writing this, I realize that nothing I’ve written here really helps you either, so all I can say is sorry, I’m doing the best I can. As soon as I’m finished with helping my mother move to her new house I’ll be beginning the new map and as such everything probably comes forward as far as expectations go.
 

Thaumantica

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If a compromise cannot be reached for new incoming Touyou nations as soon as Xen and Coro can resume activity then I believe the next step should be sinking the empty land so this does not continue as a recurring issue.
 

Karzask

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Thank you Coro for the reply. I have much sympathy and understanding for real-life issues, definitely. What is at hand, I believe, is perhaps a lack of transparent or direct communication. Which thus may lead to impatience or misapprehensions on our behalf, and causes us to be in this state of limbo...? =)
  • Personally, to this day I have not received any constructive feedback from Xen concerning the Madaray project. I am not stating this is intentional, but unfortunately there has not been any involvement or a discussion. Even via Discord and consistently tagging him in my discussion thread, has lead to no response so far. Meanwhile, he has shown activity/posted additional guidelines nonetheless.
    • Meanwhile I have read these guidelines and the current canon to make Madaray fit the overall story: no divine monarch ruling the country, no history of Western colonial affairs. Furthermore have I tried to fit in Touzenese and Azraqi history as much as possible, with Nanxing to be included as well. The latter two members have been contributing to this ongoing process, for which many thanks. Everything in that thread is of course subject to discussion and change.
    • Buddhism. On the public Discord chat room, Xen has expressed his disliking for buddhism in Toyou, because of narrative and the fact that not every country should have its own distinct religion (but rather a version of a world faith). His Touzensphere-thread claims buddhism exists as a marginal religion in Touzen, so hopefully my latest changes will persuade him to approve the religious landscape in Madaray, where Golden Path is the dominant faith but Buddhism as a smaller religion still exists. I believe its location and geographic layout may help explain this current situation - as may be Chinese Christian Nanxing to Madaray's north, I wonder. In addition I have incorporated input/suggestions from other members as well. =)
  • Simultaneously, Kyiv has been developing Nanxing in close debate with Xen over the past two months. A nation-state with storylines I look forward to. This development process has predominantly occurred in private settings. Kyiv has been granted permission to further develop Nanxing and roleplay as the nation, but there is not a single forum post confirming this - while Saaya and I are asked not to. Again, it is more an issue of communication rather than content... =)
    • Concerning content, I am not even going to question Nanxing's monarchy or Chinese Christianity. And don't get me wrong: I like his concept.
So yes, I think it's rather a matter of good communication and stimulating open conversation/exchange. =)
 
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