What's new

Montedoro Map Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.

Montedoro

Regional Actor
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
159
Location
Karachi, PK
Capital
Mazzarino
1. What is the name of your Nation-State, Colony or Expansion?
Sassari. This is a second attempt at an expansion for Montedoro which was scuttled last time due to certain issues.

2. What is the year of your foundation, recognition or colonization?
1820s

3. Who are the leaders of this application? (≈100 words)
The Directorate of Porte Oruna & Siniscola

4. Please outline the general history of your application: (500 - 600 words)
This has been discussed between me and @Pelasgia previously. This island was originally part of Pelasgia but was taken over by one of the Dukes of Montedoro in the 19th century during a drunken game wherein a bet was made and lost by the Emperor of Pelasgia. The island has subsequently been a sore point between the two countries and wars have been fought over it and it exchanged hands twice in the 19th century. Demos can chime in and corroborate this.

5. Consider the cultural implications of your application. What does your application bring to the world? Are there other nations of similar culture? • How do you differentiate, or if you are unique, how so?: (200 - 300 words)
As a former hub of slavery, the island is multi-racial, a mix of Himyari and Gallians and Kadashi people.

6. How else might this application help RP or contribute to the community? (100 - 200 words)
This island is ideal to help further push the narrative of Montedoro/Pelasgia disputes over maritime territory and would also add the element of nationalistic pride to the issue for Pelasgia, hence creating further depth in the game.

7. Please provide a link to a relevant wiki or thread. (1 minimum - Must be individually tailored, not a single post)

8. Please provide precise verbal or graphic instructions for your application. (Failure to do this will invalidate the application)
As below, location. The capital should face the Claret Sea and Siniscola should face Pelasgia, exact position is up to the mapmaker.

You must be registered for see images


Nation Name: Isola di Sassari
Capital: Porte Oruna (pop. 175K)
Other city: Siniscola (pop. 85K), the rest are towns and villages
Color request: Same as Montedoro
 

Pelasgia

Elder Statesman
Joined
Sep 30, 2014
Messages
2,694
Location
Athens, Greece
Capital
Propontis
Nick
Demos
4. Please outline the general history of your application: (500 - 600 words)
This has been discussed between me and @Pelasgia previously. This island was originally part of Pelasgia but was taken over by one of the Dukes of Montedoro in the 19th century during a drunken game wherein a bet was made and lost by the Emperor of Pelasgia. The island has subsequently been a sore point between the two countries and wars have been fought over it and it exchanged hands twice in the 19th century. Demos can chime in and corroborate this.
Accurate, Pelasgia is still butthurt about this.
 

Furlanìe

Elder Statesman
Joined
May 8, 2015
Messages
1,213
Location
Friuli - Italy
Capital
Grau
Nick
Alos
1. What is the name of your Nation-State, Colony or Expansion?
Sassari. This is a second attempt at an expansion for Montedoro which was scuttled last time due to certain issues.

2. What is the year of your foundation, recognition or colonization?
1820s

3. Who are the leaders of this application? (≈100 words)
The Directorate of Porte Oruna & Siniscola

4. Please outline the general history of your application: (500 - 600 words)
This has been discussed between me and @Pelasgia previously. This island was originally part of Pelasgia but was taken over by one of the Dukes of Montedoro in the 19th century during a drunken game wherein a bet was made and lost by the Emperor of Pelasgia. The island has subsequently been a sore point between the two countries and wars have been fought over it and it exchanged hands twice in the 19th century. Demos can chime in and corroborate this.

5. Consider the cultural implications of your application. What does your application bring to the world? Are there other nations of similar culture? • How do you differentiate, or if you are unique, how so?: (200 - 300 words)
As a former hub of slavery, the island is multi-racial, a mix of Himyari and Gallians and Kadashi people.

6. How else might this application help RP or contribute to the community? (100 - 200 words)
This island is ideal to help further push the narrative of Montedoro/Pelasgia disputes over maritime territory and would also add the element of nationalistic pride to the issue for Pelasgia, hence creating further depth in the game.

7. Please provide a link to a relevant wiki or thread. (1 minimum - Must be individually tailored, not a single post)

8. Please provide precise verbal or graphic instructions for your application. (Failure to do this will invalidate the application)
As below, location. The capital should face the Claret Sea and Siniscola should face Pelasgia, exact position is up to the mapmaker.

You must be registered for see images


Nation Name: Isola di Sassari
Capital: Porte Oruna (pop. 175K)
Other city: Siniscola (pop. 85K), the rest are towns and villages
Color request: Same as Montedoro
I must note that no agreement was reached between me and Belmont, he's been quite evasive on it actually, the story they are pushing forward implies maritime tensions that would endanger the sea route to my southernmost territories, while the current location of Montedoro is a threat already to my island Savalonut, therfore I'm still opposed to this expansion, nothing has changed really, besides a lowering of ooc animosity between us.
 

Serenierre

Elder Statesman
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
6,625
Location
Karachi, Sindh
Capital
Villesen
Nick
GalliaBae
I must note that no agreement was reached between me and Belmont, he's been quite evasive on it actually, the story they are pushing forward implies maritime tensions that would endanger the sea route to my southernmost territories, while the current location of Montedoro is a threat already to my island Savalonut, therfore I'm still opposed to this expansion, nothing has changed really, besides a lowering of ooc animosity between us.
There is a fair bit of misrepresentation here. I have not been evasive. You simply did not broach the topic with me after I rescinded the earlier request. Additionally, I think that amounts to a mixing of OOC and IC. My own submission is that the expansion will allow a richer degree of engagement in Himyar and will allow Demos and me to further pursue this narrative.

Additionally, if there was any OOC animosity, I am quite surprised by that as I did not think there was any. Apologies if there were.
 

Tyskonia

Elder Statesman
Joined
Apr 17, 2007
Messages
1,507
I must note that no agreement was reached between me and Belmont, he's been quite evasive on it actually, the story they are pushing forward implies maritime tensions that would endanger the sea route to my southernmost territories, while the current location of Montedoro is a threat already to my island Savalonut, therfore I'm still opposed to this expansion, nothing has changed really, besides a lowering of ooc animosity between us.
There is a fair bit of misrepresentation here. I have not been evasive. You simply did not broach the topic with me after I rescinded the earlier request. Additionally, I think that amounts to a mixing of OOC and IC. My own submission is that the expansion will allow a richer degree of engagement in Himyar and will allow Demos and me to further pursue this narrative.

Additionally, if there was any OOC animosity, I am quite surprised by that as I did not think there was any. Apologies if there were.
Let’s see if we can figure this out in public right now...

I would be curious what would be required to make this application acceptable to @Furlanìe. Normally otherwise I’d be quite fine mapping it at this point because I think the original reason why I declined mapping it has been mostly solved by the passage of time, that being the potential for immediate hostilities between the two of you seemed high at the time. That the potential for conflict seems to have decreased by a large degree and thereby not giving @Serenierre (@Montedoro) any upper hand in a soon to be war... I would be inclined to map this new request. That said, I am willing to seek a second opinion as well. (@Ambrosia)
 

Furlanìe

Elder Statesman
Joined
May 8, 2015
Messages
1,213
Location
Friuli - Italy
Capital
Grau
Nick
Alos
lack of interaction isn't to be confused with a problem being solved, I'm not here to fight over this, I'm worn out tbh, I'm just giving my opinion here, serenierre is big enough already, and having an overly and cartoonishly nasty Montedoro become 4 times bigger just because of a news-driven narrative seems a bit too much to me
 

Varovia

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Aug 16, 2007
Messages
6,429
Location
Suncoast FL
Capital
Vestrov
Nick
Nilshanks
I tend to value neighbor challenges to expansion over the expansion claim. An alternative solution may be in the claim that the island once belong to Pelasgia: it doesn't now, so why not trade pixels on one of the smaller islands that Pelasgia does have? In that way Montedoro would achieve what it's going for, just not at the scale of 4 times like Furlanie challenges.
 

Serenierre

Elder Statesman
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
6,625
Location
Karachi, Sindh
Capital
Villesen
Nick
GalliaBae
I tend to value neighbor challenges to expansion over the expansion claim. An alternative solution may be in the claim that the island once belong to Pelasgia: it doesn't now, so why not trade pixels on one of the smaller islands that Pelasgia does have? In that way Montedoro would achieve what it's going for, just not at the scale of 4 times like Furlanie challenges.
Pelasgia's existing islands are far too small. I suggest an alternative could be inserting a new island 1/4 the size of the current claim and move it eastward to a position just below the "e" in the Claret Sea.

Maybe break the island currently claimed into two islands, a larger unclaimed island stays where it currently is and 1/4 of it is moved as suggested above. So as to not make it too crowded.
 

Furlanìe

Elder Statesman
Joined
May 8, 2015
Messages
1,213
Location
Friuli - Italy
Capital
Grau
Nick
Alos
I tend to value neighbor challenges to expansion over the expansion claim. An alternative solution may be in the claim that the island once belong to Pelasgia: it doesn't now, so why not trade pixels on one of the smaller islands that Pelasgia does have? In that way Montedoro would achieve what it's going for, just not at the scale of 4 times like Furlanie challenges.
Pelasgia's existing islands are far too small. I suggest an alternative could be inserting a new island 1/4 the size of the current claim and move it eastward to a position just below the "e" in the Claret Sea.
if an expansion is strictly necessary I would be fine with both solutions, if other neighbours such as @Eiffelland agree
 

Pelasgia

Elder Statesman
Joined
Sep 30, 2014
Messages
2,694
Location
Athens, Greece
Capital
Propontis
Nick
Demos
I would not be exactly delighted to give up one of my islets for the simple reason that (i) they are a tad too small for this dispute and (ii) I don't wanna remake my map again. And also because I have established RP with my frontier islands (Pharos, the furthermost of the isles,, has been mentioned in at least 4 RP threads, and was recently mentioned in my news). I think I like Serenierre's idea for a new island a bit more. But, if it's too much trouble, we can work something out.
 

Varovia

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Aug 16, 2007
Messages
6,429
Location
Suncoast FL
Capital
Vestrov
Nick
Nilshanks
With these mutually agreed terms it's up to the mapmaker to make a Goldilocks island, and I thank him for his service!
 

Pohjanmaa

Elder Statesman
Joined
Oct 30, 2006
Messages
5,518
Location
Linköping
Capital
Göötehamina
Nick
Coro (Skeppsholmen)
I have to be honest I do not see the circumstantial difference between the island as initially requested and a new island where the ‘e’ is located in Claret Sea. Either/or it maintains the same problem that was initially problematic. A little further out to sea is still just as much in the way of Furlaníe as the island relatively next to it. We might as well use the island that already exists.

Additionally the addition of this new island installs a new choke point on the map. Belmont has demonstrated in past RP that these kinds of choke points matter a lot to him. So much we had over a year of Retalian Sea island RP dispute. So I will not allow new strategic islands to sprout from the sea giving a clear geopolitical advantage.

So here are the easier assumptions/options...
• Furlaníe vetos and it’s well within his right as backed up by Ambrosia’s comments.
• Furlaníe changes his mind and it goes through as originally requested.
• Or you guys choose to use an existing island owned by Pelasgia.

If you want a new island to sprout from the sea and thus avoid Furlaníe’s decision...
• There must be a narrative that returns the “gassing” to this new island. Speaking with a few mod important people and there is an idea where RP of detriment was voided and then is rewarded with fresh new clean pixels in a geopolitically amazing place. So the dirt will remain and the pixels should not be rewarding which takes us the next point.
• The island must be quite close to Pelasgia‘s current coast. Not in the middle of the sea. You can choose the Claret Sea or Hamar Sea side; however, you cannot choose directly north of the Pelasgian peninsular coast that juts northward as that causes the similar problem I mentioned prior. I hope those instructions make sense.
 

Serenierre

Elder Statesman
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
6,625
Location
Karachi, Sindh
Capital
Villesen
Nick
GalliaBae
I have to be honest I do not see the circumstantial difference between the island as initially requested and a new island where the ‘e’ is located in Claret Sea. Either/or it maintains the same problem that was initially problematic. A little further out to sea is still just as much in the way of Furlaníe as the island relatively next to it. We might as well use the island that already exists.

Additionally the addition of this new island installs a new choke point on the map. Belmont has demonstrated in past RP that these kinds of choke points matter a lot to him. So much we had over a year of Retalian Sea island RP dispute. So I will not allow new strategic islands to sprout from the sea giving a clear geopolitical advantage.

So here are the easier assumptions/options...
• Furlaníe vetos and it’s well within his right as backed up by Ambrosia’s comments.
• Furlaníe changes his mind and it goes through as originally requested.
• Or you guys choose to use an existing island owned by Pelasgia.

If you want a new island to sprout from the sea and thus avoid Furlaníe’s decision...
• There must be a narrative that returns the “gassing” to this new island. Speaking with a few mod important people and there is an idea where RP of detriment was voided and then is rewarded with fresh new clean pixels in a geopolitically amazing place. So the dirt will remain and the pixels should not be rewarding which takes us the next point.
• The island must be quite close to Pelasgia‘s current coast. Not in the middle of the sea. You can choose the Claret Sea or Hamar Sea side; however, you cannot choose directly north of the Pelasgian peninsular coast that juts northward as that causes the similar problem I mentioned prior. I hope those instructions make sense.
This is a blatant attempt to bully me into adopting a storyline which I have categorically said I wanted to move past. Consequently, I withdraw my request once again.
 

Touzen

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 30, 2006
Messages
9,284
Location
Tokyo, Japan
Capital
Shinkyô
Nick
Xen
The gassing has to be represented one way or the other - this is really just a way to include it in a way that would be most accommodating to your current intentions.
 

Furlanìe

Elder Statesman
Joined
May 8, 2015
Messages
1,213
Location
Friuli - Italy
Capital
Grau
Nick
Alos
I do not see the circumstantial difference between the island as initially requested and a new island where the ‘e’ is located in Claret Sea
It would be further away from the shipping route Savalonut-Corifô, making the expansion less of a threat, with Savalonut already near Montedoro territory, having the southern Corifô area near it aswell would tie my entire long sea territories to this issue, out of sight out of mind, that's the difference
 

Serenierre

Elder Statesman
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
6,625
Location
Karachi, Sindh
Capital
Villesen
Nick
GalliaBae
The gassing has to be represented one way or the other - this is really just a way to include it in a way that would be most accommodating to your current intentions.
What do you mean "has to be"? That is the language of compulsion. When I have intimated consistently that I will not be engaging with the Occitanian storyline in any form in the present case, this constant barrage of coercion is, with respect, not fair to me and quite frankly unbecoming of someone of your seniority.
 

Touzen

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 30, 2006
Messages
9,284
Location
Tokyo, Japan
Capital
Shinkyô
Nick
Xen
What do you mean "has to be"? That is the language of compulsion. When I have intimated consistently that I will not be engaging with the Occitanian storyline in any form in the present case, this constant barrage of coercion is, with respect, not fair to me and quite frankly unbecoming of someone of your seniority.
I have consistently advocated historical integrity of our roleplay for many years, as you would know. That it’s affecting you this time around is not because it’s you as a person. For that matter, I have also recently advocated with Jurzy for the Long Sea events to be maintained in the current canon, even though the outcome of that has been exclusively negative rep for my nation and my allies. I could just as easily try to hand wave it and demand people to ICly treat my nation differently for it, but I don’t.

Basically, it has nothing to do with a Occidentia per se, but the fact that Serenierre committed a war crime and you wish to eradicate that history in the context of keeping everything else the same. It doesn’t strike me as reasonable. Nor does expanding territory (a net plus) while removing a controversial part of history (a net neg). If Serenierre is a continuing story and is still around in generally the same continuity - surely including the history in an altered form in what even would be a smaller part of your national narrative than an entire front of a massive war that was generally accepted to be eliminated from history is reasonable and accommodating.
 

Serenierre

Elder Statesman
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
6,625
Location
Karachi, Sindh
Capital
Villesen
Nick
GalliaBae
How is everything the same? The entire map spot is different now and it's conducted itself completely differently. This current version of Serenierre did not launch a war against anyone joining a "foreign alliance" - as BPR and Auraria have done. If you may recall, that was the casus belli against Occitania. Certainly the unique features of Serenierre have continued but the policies have been different. It's even broken ranks with kadikistan just by the way. Hence I would argue it's awfully reductive to say that it's exactly the same.
 

Pohjanmaa

Elder Statesman
Joined
Oct 30, 2006
Messages
5,518
Location
Linköping
Capital
Göötehamina
Nick
Coro (Skeppsholmen)
We need to start banning these soft reboots. That’s all I can say. Many, if not all of us are still RPing with Serenierre as if it’s the same minus a few hiccups like Occitania being missing (but still maintaining some legacy) and adding some new hiccups like Montedoro.
 

Serenierre

Elder Statesman
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
6,625
Location
Karachi, Sindh
Capital
Villesen
Nick
GalliaBae
We need to start banning these soft reboots. That’s all I can say. Many, if not all of us are still RPing with Serenierre as if it’s the same minus a few hiccups like Occitania being missing (but still maintaining some legacy) and adding some new hiccups like Montedoro.
But the fact is it was not banned when I made the transition. To penalise a person retrospectively makes no sense. But if such is the case, then radical decisions will be taken.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top