Northern Exposure: The Two Kingdoms and Dominions

Discussion in 'Worldbuilding & Wiki' started by Jyskerige-Østveg, Oct 23, 2018.

    Loading...
  1. Jyskerige-Østveg

    Jyskerige-Østveg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2006
    Messages:
    4,974
    Location:
    Stockholm
    Capital:
    Gøthehavn
    Nick:
    Coro/Skeppsholmen
    Ok, sounds good! I’ll get a special interest story going on it, and then you can go the whole nine yards thereafter?
     
    Pelasgia likes this.
  2. Pelasgia

    Pelasgia Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2014
    Messages:
    2,080
    Location:
    Athens, Greece
    Capital:
    Propontis
    Nick:
    Demosthenes
    Sure, sounds great

    Hello there guest. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    Thanks for going along with this. I promise not to massacre the Varangians again.
     
  3. Jyskerige-Østveg

    Jyskerige-Østveg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2006
    Messages:
    4,974
    Location:
    Stockholm
    Capital:
    Gøthehavn
    Nick:
    Coro/Skeppsholmen
    Understanding the Nords and their System in our RP World
    I think it’s a bit problematic looking at the influences for where the Nordic/Scanian style of governance has come from. It’s an anomaly. Looking at the welfare state, and the general armed neutrality factor, it seems to be quite a strange nation, but I’m going to paint it as one based in pragmatism.

    Originally the main priority for the Two Kingdoms was self-preservation. Trapped between Engellkin powers, the Trier Continent, and the Rurikgrad Pact, the former Empire had no real friends. Once trying to actively profit with access to the Gothic Sea and subsequently its colonies, the Two Kingdoms now how to worry about how to protect its homeland like never before.

    Historically, the Kingdoms were a nation almost at constant war, enemies were made all over the place and the end of absolute monarchy was hoped to put the nation finally at peace in the early 18th century when a new Parliament was established. This Parliament was different from today in that it was based largely on nobles and wealthy merchants. There was a sense of pride in the Empire among these classes and they not only sought to protect it, but also expand it in hopes of gaining more opportunities for riches. This resulted in in-fighting between different political parties, and these parties were particularly suspect to foreign meddling. A party leader could often be bought for a foreign power to declare war for another power and gain whatever spoils. The problem was, the highest bidder was not always the winning side. These wars took their toll as the majority of the Empire’s colonies were lost. By 1828, with foreign troops on home soil, and an estimated 20 days march to occupy most of the Gothic Sea coastline and then fully surround Gothenhagen, the impossible occurred. King Christian XI walked in on Parliament and shot the Prime Minister. With his Royal Guard aiding him, Parliament was closed and the King negotiated peace. The end of the wars endeared the people to Christian XI who set about the current path of neutrality understanding that the country had no ability to project power any longer. These actions likely cemented the idea of maintaining the Kingdom and Monarchy.

    The goal from this point on was trying to make the Two Kingdoms look too difficult of a nation to invade. Emphasis was placed on the Navy. The national water barrier would be able to serve as the biggest defense for the Two Kingdoms until the 1950s when strategists began to wonder if the waterways would no longer be able to save the Kingdoms with the advance of technology.

    The Governmental system after 1828 was reformed to a more democratic Parliament. The King maintained absolute power until his death, but left his son in charge to handle the transition to democracy. By 1868, the Folketing was functioning and dominated by Conservative parties. Their main goal was to prevent clamity from occurring again.

    The welfare state is a bit of an after thought for the Scanian System. High taxes paid for the military’s robust defense but alcoholism in the early 20th century was rampant and progressives took charge of politics in order to reverse this. The Progressive movement managed to institute prohibition. They would also begin to advance many social welfare programs designed to remove poverty and drunks from the streets. Outright, they hoped to institute reforms they noticed being done in communist countries, but riots occurred in Gothenhagen in 1927 after rumors of a government storage of alcohol were confirmed true. Nords ransacked the building and lit it ablaze with hundreds injured an at least 40 dead. The result was the 1929 Alcohol referendum in which 51% of Nords voted to return alcohol sales. Progressive Government wouldn’t allow for it, and resigned in disgust. Conservative Governments would pick up the pieces by instituting government monopoly sales and the creation of moderate drinking societies —designed to showcase the luxury of the rich and their ability to drink in moderation. Conservative governments would expand welfare in many instances with one major goal, to continue to win elections so that Progressives and Communists wouldn’t be able to push the country towards actual communism. Conservative Governments saw themselves as ones responsible for preventing communism by instituting soft socialist ideas. Dissatisfaction with some policies saw a split in the party, and Conservatives would often have to rule with the Liberal party, which instituted many of the liberal economics practiced by the Two Kingdom’s today.

    Post Delegationism would find itself added to the mix in the 1940s as more foreign ideas would enter the mainstream. The split off Conservatives would find themselves in support of these ideas, as they saw the state grow and grow. Their vote share would continue to shrink as Government policies would lead to extremely high standards of living in the Two Kingdoms.

    The result of these trends is where the Two Kingdoms came from. The fight against Communism was key in domestic politics. Thoughts like post-delegationism were more after thoughts because things never really seemed worth changing. Although there is great affinity for Post Delegationist thoughts, removal of a political system that is working seems a bit rash to Nords which prefer routine and avoiding conflict. The Occident, and Engellkin lands are seen with great shock, but also adventure. Outrage is often the case with events that occur to the West, but there is a love affair with the idea of the old west and cowboys. Communist states and their growth have created a world where there is a bit of a fear of annexation, and thus policies are usually crafted by Conservative governments to keep in good terms with these governments. Additionally business in arm purchases has kept Communist nations ok with the idea of Two Kingdoms. Trier nations are a bit in a bubble for Nords, they are seen as moderate and friendly, no necessarily influential on the conduct of the Two Kingdoms. Lastly Himyari nations are seen in well regard generally, but aswell, not much exchange of ideas occurs here either.
    —————————
    LASTLY, unrelated, some military items have been added to the original thread post.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2018
  4. Jyskerige-Østveg

    Jyskerige-Østveg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2006
    Messages:
    4,974
    Location:
    Stockholm
    Capital:
    Gøthehavn
    Nick:
    Coro/Skeppsholmen
    I’ve been working on the wiki a bit as of late, and I’ve begun to add the military sections to it. You can find the Army section is just a copypasta from this thread. The Navy section is new, and while not complete I hope it shows a bit how the Royal Navy is structured via equipment and a defensive emphasis. The wiki link is also now permanently in my signature.
     
  5. Jyskerige-Østveg

    Jyskerige-Østveg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2006
    Messages:
    4,974
    Location:
    Stockholm
    Capital:
    Gøthehavn
    Nick:
    Coro/Skeppsholmen
    I’ll be looking to make some “foundational” changes over the next weeks, and would appreciate it if people could answer the questionnaire in this thread.

    Based on those opinions I can try to make sure those changes are in line with actual improvements. Not just some random musings and feelings I have to try to fix things to better improve the RP for the Two Kingdoms. Some of which is removing the dual kingdom system entirely for example and thus simplifying the nation’s make up and presentation. Alternatively, I could make it more complicated, but I get the idea that the more complicated the internal mechanisms are the more difficult it is to have RP that is accessible to other players.

    That said, I think I’m also failing on the cultural RP aspect of things, and thus I’m looking to fix a lot! So your input would be appreciated!
     
  6. Jyskerige-Østveg

    Jyskerige-Østveg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2006
    Messages:
    4,974
    Location:
    Stockholm
    Capital:
    Gøthehavn
    Nick:
    Coro/Skeppsholmen
    Trying to understand the composition of the Two Kingdoms
    I think one of the most difficult aspects of the Two Kingdoms is understanding who is who, what is what. What are the social cleavages of these Kingdoms and its realms? Clearly it does not have the divisions of modern Scandinavia, and that could be difficult to comprehend when such divisions seemingly do occur when looking at the Two Kingdoms. News in GHS has shown discontent and divisions as well, although it often focuses on economic considerations.

    Understanding that elements of RL Denmark, Norway, and Sweden is important as to how they all interact with each other, but nationalist tendencies never really built themselves up due to the decentralized nature of the nation. In the mid-19th and early 20th century, when many nationalist uprisings took place around Europe, the Two Kingdoms were not immune. These nationalists expressions resulted in the creation of Parliaments across the Two Kingdoms. Further expansions of the electorate gave increased rights to citizens and stymied popular revolts, encouraging revolutionaries to work within the system. Nordic Agrarianism worked to implement features of revolutionaries in moderate forms to maintain control of conservative values within the society.

    Below you’ll find the areas of the realm cut up and described a little.
    Jyskerige - Dannevang (≈10 million)
    This is the dominating national collective of the Two Kingdoms, centered around the prominence of Gothenhagen (Danish: Gøthehavn, Swedish: Göthehamn), the desires and power behind the Jysk-Danish collective has dominated international politics, warfare, and trade.

    The Jysk-Danish people all speak Danish and can mirror Denmark in a lot of ways. Differences can been seen in that they aren’t overshadowed by their neighbors in regards to power perception as they are in RL. Gothenhagen as opposed to Copenhagen, has the complexities of a former imperial capital as well. So while maintaining Danish charm, it’s larger, and takes in the far reaches of the former Empire.

    Dannevang is where the term Danish is used, and represents the lands in the western and north of Jyskerige, including a section of the mainland Western Scanian sub-continent. The Jutes hail from the main large island. Jysk and Danish are synonymous.

    This Kingdom is known for its arrogance, but also for its sullen and depressing atmosphere. Quite often, visitors would rather spend time in Østveg because of its different relationship and emotions to the winter. This could be due to this region penchant for rain rather than snow.
    Østveg (≈15 million)
    West Austwegian (≈5million)
    These people can be seen as though they are RL Norwegians. They are filthy rich from the oil, but they are also the red-headed stepchildren. They were favored by the Jysk-Danish central government because they are the original union country, and where all of the hierarchy is located. As a result, in our world, this is how we explain why West Austwegians linguistically are more similar to Jysk. They are known for their exploration westward as well, and even having successful small colonies in Markland (Occidentia/Westernesse) for a time. For all intents and purposes, when you say Austwegian you are thinking of these people. While historically, Austwegian as a term has also represented the East Austwegian group (which has been restless recently), West Østveg is the stereotype. Imagine it much like how when non-Germans think of Germany, they tend to actually think of Bavaria, which isn’t very representative of Germany as a whole.

    Unique to Western Østveg is its proximity to Gouw Marken. This has given it pockets of Dutch speakers and Dutch nobles which have played a key role in shipbuilding, canal building, and naval development. Today most of these areas have been Austwegified, but the names, and some Dutch can still be found in the old towns of larger villages.​

    East Austwegian (≈9million)
    East Austwegians have always been different from West Austwegians. Politically they have been together singularly as Østveg for over 500 years. They speak funny compared to the rest of the Two Kingdoms, and that is represented as them being Swedish when compared to RL. (Similarly, here Ø become Ö) This region has often seen its interests align with West Austwegians, and the two tend to see themselves as brothers in a certain respect. They represented the poorer mainland together compared to the rich islands that controlled the tariffs and taxes related to the Skånesund flowing in and out of the Gothic Sea.

    The difference between the two began to grow after oil was found in West Østveg in the mid-20th century. Income inequality grew. Language differences began to be associated with class. East Austwegians are also more religious and conservative than their West Austwegian counterparts. Despite this, they vote more socialist than the rest of the nation due to their relative poverty, and manufacturing base. Manufacturing as a whole has declined in Jysk-Austwegian territories because of very liberal trade policies and low tariffs which killed the sector compared to cheaper imports. On the flip side, technology firms have sprouted to counteract this nationally, they’ve appeared in West Østveg and Jyskerige.

    East Østveg, historically was dominated by the region of Sørmland (Sörmland), and it’s central city of Waldemarsudde. The Scanian Nationalist Party (SNP), has now preferred to call the region Scania (Jysk-Austwegian: Skåne) and thus the heart of the Scanian Continental region in general. Jysk-Austwegians more normally refer to it as Sørmland due to the historical dominance of that county.

    Prior to the dominance of Sørmland, the region was best known for the Jemts, and their peasant republic of Jämtlandica (Shout out to an old and oft hated player, also the original Swede in NSEurope). The region maintained its own army, currency, laws, and parliament. Despite this, it was largely considered to be a region in anarchy. The Jemts would conquer most of present day East Østveg, over the span of 50 years, during the aggressive leadership of Olof Ragnar Olofsson from 970 to 1041. That said, while much of peasant republic had the qualifications of a state, it lacked true public administration and crumbled wholesale when attacked by the Austwegians in the 11th century. After the region was annexed, it was known by Austwegians as Smålandica due to the many regions present. Today the term has fallen into near disuse.

    While they are Swedes in the RL sense, they occupy a reverse role compared to the RL Norwegians culturally in that they are part of the Norwegian Kingdom in this case, despite having the larger population.
    Drottning Ragnhild Land (≈2 million)
    Settled by West Austwegians, the region is known as bit of a hybrid. Each small island can often have its own dialect and cultural differences. The main island is known for speaking East Austwegian dialects, while the small ones often speaking West Austwegian dialects, or Old Norse related dialects. The region was colonial in nature, and seen as part of Markland until the end of the Great Northern Empire and the loss of Sylvania. Queenslanders are known for their superstitions and beliefs in odd fairy tales. The region can be compared to RL Iceland, but holds an identity a bit closer to RL Sweden than Denmark as was the case for Iceland. Due to this, it is related to the Kingdom of Østveg officially, although was administered by Jyskerige until the constitutional reforms in August of 2018 allowed for Queenslanders to maintain their own regional Parliament and submit their own representatives to the national Parliament.​

    Finner og Isørerne (≈1 million)

    The only Finnic group that is part of the realm, it has been marginalized for centuries. Today it’s a technological hub, and very popular location for companies around Europe to base their servers. Compare it to RL Estonia. The major difference is that instead of Russian speakers, you’ll find Danish and Swedish ones in pockets. The region was insanely poor for the vast majority of recorded history, but has seen its standard of living catch up to the rest of the realm since the beginning of the internet age. The region has ties to Pohjanmaa, and maintains some degrees of Post Delegationist ideas in the population. So much so, that a Post Delegationist Party is represented in the national Parliament in Gothenhagen from Finner og Isørerne. Historically this region was administered solely by Jyskerige, but now they send members of Parliament nationally, as well as maintain their very new regional Parliament.​
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
    Salen, Engellex, Beautancus and 3 others like this.
  7. Jyskerige-Østveg

    Jyskerige-Østveg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2006
    Messages:
    4,974
    Location:
    Stockholm
    Capital:
    Gøthehavn
    Nick:
    Coro/Skeppsholmen
    I think I may retool some things as to not have a 100% monopoly on all things Scandinavia. On that aspect, I’ll also continue to work with trying to be my own thing. Thus far my internal thoughts have sort of tried to covered something from each of the three major Scandinavian nations. With the possible addition of another Scandinavian player I think I will change that. So keep your eyes open for a post trying to figure out how I want to proceed with that.

    Y’all can also make suggestions or comments.
     
  8. Azraq

    Azraq Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2018
    Messages:
    151
    Capital:
    Jugol
    Nick:
    Norse
    Doesn't have to be a monopoly... how many French / German / Italian nations do we have for example.
     
    Natal and Engellex like this.
  9. Salen

    Salen Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2014
    Messages:
    173
    Capital:
    Herenthem
    Nick:
    Geda
    Do you have a more detailed overview about the Great Northern Empire, aside the wiki article? Especially in terms of dates and historical figures. As mentioned before I might would like to fit Salen in this history. =)
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2019 at 12:46 PM
  10. Jyskerige-Østveg

    Jyskerige-Østveg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2006
    Messages:
    4,974
    Location:
    Stockholm
    Capital:
    Gøthehavn
    Nick:
    Coro/Skeppsholmen
    Ok, I tried to fine tune some of the history, and recently added new things to the wiki. (After your message here, in hopes to help you) You can find a way to fit yourself into the history at any point during the Great Northern Empire, or even before it during the Reformation. I’m absolutely happy with Salen and Pohjanmaa leaving the Great Northern Empire together in 1820 as you wrote in the other thread.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019 at 10:46 AM
    Salen likes this.

Share This Page