Occitania and Brecosta (att. all)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Eiffelland, May 13, 2019.

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  1. Justosia

    Justosia Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. I've done literally nothing with those troops for months. Their limbo needs to end. I believe I've made my case. Natal's scenario is intriguing as well. Fellow right leaning Christian nations should be happy Brecosta is being kept in the family so to speak. I'd be willing to RP a deal, compromise of sorts with Eiffelland since he's pretty keen on it too.
     
  2. Serenierre

    Serenierre Well-Known Member

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    You know through all of this, the Justosian take over of Brecosta concerns me primarily because so far we have heard nothing from Touzen. How would the PD Anti-state respond to such an overt display of force/imperialism in its neck of the woods?

    Also, essentially, one of the other points to note about adopting Jyskerige's scenario is that it would make the Trier Concordat's defeat even worse than it already was. Would Eiffelland be willing to accept such a storyline? Other stakeholders' views may need to be factored into this. Otherwise, quite suddenly it may transpire that Plot A being changed to Plot B is somehow offensive to Party XYZ.

    Let's go in with our eyes wide open.
     
  3. Justosia

    Justosia Well-Known Member

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    I am beyond open to negotiations. IF I have to handicap myself in some other way....
     
  4. Jyskerige-Østveg

    Jyskerige-Østveg Well-Known Member

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    A decent point, but I suppose the ramifications of that era have already been felt. To outright remove Occitania adding it to the Serenien fold I don’t believe changes anything RP wise. Eiffelland cannot be hurt anymore than he already was from that time period and if anything removing Occitania from his dependency can only help his economic outlook moving forward, as right now he’s charged with rebuilding and protecting it.
     
  5. Eiffelland

    Eiffelland Well-Known Member

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    I am neutral in the decision whether Brecosta should be greened/sunk or not. If it is not greened or sunk, we have to think about what happened after the war. Did it become independent? Did a revolution break out, which was quelled by Justosia, after which it takes the colony after Eastern Occitania completely breaks down?


    Sorry, but I disagree with this solution. Not only because it is too humiliating to me, but also because we have to rewrite a lot of history.


    If you want to take control of it, I have no problems with it. However, if you want to merge Eastern Occitania into Friuli, your own government is pro-Serenierre, and the Eastern-Occitanians are anti-Serenierre. How are you going to handle that?


    Do you really think that I ICly trust you?

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    And eh, do you really think that the Occitanians love you after you gassed them and burnt them, and after you sent that Catholic bishop into Western Occitania to christen the Occitanian pagans? Nobody is that masochist

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    It could indeed be that a revolution took place in Eastern Occitania, but then still the Eastern Occitanians don't like the idea of living next to a pyromaniac gas queen with land hunger

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    On a more serious note, it could indeed be that the Eastern Occitanians want to get rid of the King because of the bad situation, but they will primarily hold Serenierre responsible for it. The end result of such a revolution will almost likely be a government which is even more anti-Serenierre than the current government, or my own population. The Eastern Occitanians would prefer to live under my protection, even if my previous protection did not prevent Serenierre from occupying 2/3 of Occitania.


    The problem is, that officially Eastern Occitania is still in an alliance with Eiffelland-Retalia. I think that I would have helped the Occitanian King with crushing that revolution. I would also have defended Eastern Occitania against a Friulian invasion. And eh, Friuli, with all due respect, you would have been an easier adversary than Serenierre

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    There is an alternative, however. Peaceful demonstrations of ethnic TIburans emerge in the northern part of Eastern Occitania, and the King of Eastern Occitania agrees to a transition of the parts of Eastern Occitania inhabited by ethnic Tiburans in exchange for economic aid. That is something I would agree to. Furthermore, I myself recently RPed the start of an Eiffelloretalian economic aid package for Eastern Occitania. That also means that we could make the rebuilding of Eastern Occitania a project that we conduct together.


    Well, I am willing to take up RPing Eastern Occitania as an NPC, but only if nobody at the forum has a problem with that. However, Friuli may have more time to develop interesting stories. I may end up with extremely romantic love stories again

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  6. Justosia

    Justosia Well-Known Member

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    If you guys will check the World Stage, that's what I'm doing. Eiffelland's first thesis. It can be pretty realistically surmised that since East Occitania breaking down meant the total collapse of the prior colonial government. Some of my contingency force I'll RP as having married Brecostans as further reason to stay, etc.
     
  7. Serenierre

    Serenierre Well-Known Member

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    I think we have established that that would not be acceptable.I would prefer if we leave East Occitania as a NPC which is run on a consensus of the community basis. It's not like we have a huge waiting list of members waiting to join the forum. So, I don't necessarily think there is any question to

    Well, there is also an alternative argument. Why would the East Occitanians be happy with Eiffelland as a foreign military power staying on. Their country was divided. They lost the war. All on the Eiffellander watch. This is definitely not America in West Germany.

    Where did you post an economic package? Although, I think the net fundamentals of the East Occitanian economy are something you need to critically analyse.
     
  8. Lars

    Lars Well-Known Member

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    Quick summary,

    The Kingdom of Occitania cannot be administered either by Eiffilland or by Serenniere.

    Furthermore, the idea that the Occitans hate SRN is not to be underestimated, after all Serennier is an aggressor country and has behaved objectively of shit in war. From Eiffelland it must be said that he was incapable of managing the entire conflict, also true that it does not win sympathy for the Occitans this thing, but also napalm on civilians does not help friendship.

    No, it is not enough to issue a law or paper to change centuries of cultural difference. Reason for which I do not write about any great distortion of the Occitan culture, despite having made the player behind Occitania sign agreements on human rights etc ... I know that some changes, especially concerning particular cases like Occitania, are very slow to be introduced , like it or not.


    With regard to the colony, I do not think it is feasible to change a dominant nation without the colony trying to claim greater degrees of freedom in one way or another.
     
  9. Jyskerige-Østveg

    Jyskerige-Østveg Well-Known Member

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    I don’t buy that argument. East Occitanians may not be happy with result of the war, but you don’t turn your back on the only thing keeping you a sovereign state.

    That said, the status for East Occitania wouldn’t be something of the status quo either. They’d seek to keep as many Eiffeloretalian troops in their territory, but also be seeking more allies and partners to prevent further attack.
     
  10. Serenierre

    Serenierre Well-Known Member

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    Hmm. This is an unending debate. Perhaps Coro's suggestion earlier might be the easiest way to resolve everything and keep some degree of continuity intact. We need final resolution on East Occitania to roleplay can move forward.

    But I think it is a given that Occitania could not have maintained control of Brecosta.
     
  11. Natal

    Natal Well-Known Member

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    I would be against uniting Occitania behind the protectorate or have Friuli take it over, just because if it would have been there, it would have invaded it too. I find it in poor taste to change it like that. History might be acceptable, but organically written and played RP shouldn't. That is why, tbh, I find the status of East Occitania to be a non-issue, because as Serenierre is prop10ing West Occitania, I don't understand why Lars and Eiffelland can do the same for the East. After the war, tbh I do think that the Occitans are glad that there are Eiffellander soldiers there, as much as I do think that in the face of a potential WW3 during the Cold War, the Bundeswehr was happy to see that the US army was stationed there, in the face of the Soviet Army and the NVA.
     
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  12. Serenierre

    Serenierre Well-Known Member

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    I agree. Personally, I am in a hurry for this to be resolved so that I can get back to my articles.
     
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  13. Justosia

    Justosia Well-Known Member

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    It is. That is what's truly unacceptable. This particular status quo needs to change. I believe I've made my case as I've said. I've made many conciliatory moves to certain regional powers. Still open to the other things I said but I'm moving forward with my Adrift on Land RP.
     
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  14. Eiffelland

    Eiffelland Well-Known Member

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    Natal">@Natal, I have a question.

    Does this imply that you don't want Lars and me to prop10 East-Occitania, or did you want to say that you don't see an issue with Lars and me prop10ing East-Occitania?

    By the way, maybe good to explain the expression "to prop10". That expression refers to somebody RPing events in a country that belongs to nobody. Sometimes that country is created to play out a civil war (like Loago), sometimes it is a country with a historic importance of which the RPer left or which the RPer does not want to RP any more (like Bourgogne, Borovanger and Occitania).

    Like I originally said, if a majority, or at least a very large minority, of the forum has objections against me prop10ing Eastern Occitania, I should not prop10 it. However, we have to decide about what to do with it. If nobody wants to prop10 it, and only a few people have objections against Lars and me prop10ing it, then I think it would be better if indeed Lars and I are going to prop10 it. Sorry for that, Serenierre.
     
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  15. Eiffelland

    Eiffelland Well-Known Member

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  16. Serenierre

    Serenierre Well-Known Member

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    An economic package in May. It's been a rough time for the Easterners, it seems.

    First and foremost East Occitania would need a disbursement of foreign exchange to ensure that its imports of foodstuffs doesn't lead to a current account deficit - which arguably it already must have faced. Second, one would need to see what happened to the sovereign debt of the Kingdom of Occitania. Third, any potential East Occitanian roleplay should focus on how the economically crippled country is handling the influx of people and the food supply issue. Ration packs are not sustainable until the systemic problems are not addressed.

    Just launching pads for economic roleplay. My view based on my readings.
     
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  17. Azraq

    Azraq Super Moderator

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    I will leave Gallo Germania to decide what to happen to Occitania though my view is that war along with what happened to Trivodnia is the backdrop to what we are mostly operating to.

    I think we can green Brecosta however. If Justosia did annex it as has been suggested my recent treaty with him makes no sense.
     
  18. Lars

    Lars Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't want to break a spear of favor for Eifelland, but it must be taken into account that:
    Eiffelland has his hands tied because he can't do RP instead of a player that is Occitania, a problem that is also found with Marsilia, where there is not even the staff behind. The situation is quite different instead from the act of SRN that can interpret both parties in the game, you could choose effects introduced by its reforms, something that EIF case cannot do because it still invades a game of another player.
    It is also true that the Occitan situation, however, has taken second place to its front, i dont know why.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019 at 9:35 PM
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  19. Justosia

    Justosia Well-Known Member

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    Yes I did. Why not? As I said on here before it's pretty 'rightfully' mine. I don't wanna repeat myself tho.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019 at 10:15 PM
  20. Eiffelland

    Eiffelland Well-Known Member

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    That is indeed the problem that I face in Eastern Occitania. I can't RP a country that isn't mine, unless I get approval from the forum for that.

    I need a decision here: What are we going to do with Eastern Occitania? Is there a large majority that wants to give me approval to RP it? If not, is anybody else prepared to RP it? If not, shall we continue to keep it on the map as terra incognita?

    For Brecosta, I don't know if it is a good idea to green or sink it. I do know, however, that Pelasgia, Azraq, Touzen and Kadikistan will have an opinion on Justosia annexing it. Better said, they won't let you do so. I'm awfully sorry, but I'm afraid it is totally unrealistic that you would have been able to conquer it.
     
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