OOC: Bourgogne

Discussion in 'OOC Threads' started by Elben, Jul 14, 2019 at 3:18 AM.

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  1. Elben

    Elben Well-Known Member

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    A thread to formally register wishes for clarification on events in the "Ground Zero: Bourgogne" thread and related posts.
     
  2. Burgundian People's Republic

    Burgundian People's Republic Active Member

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    a map might be in order so we can all see where everyone is in relation to one another.
     
  3. Jyskerige-Østveg

    Jyskerige-Østveg Well-Known Member

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    There are several questions to be asked in this RP, and the first I’d like to highlight is my own participation. As it is, Pays-Petites has rolled tanks into Neustria/BPR. Pays-Petites being a Grand Duchy within the Two Kingdoms, and creating a “constitutional crisis” of sorts. That said, I am not able to work in this conflict with Pohjanmaa (my secondary), when foreign policy wise it should be. Before things get possibly too heated, especially with the direction I have my own story headed (unbeknownst to every player as I haven’t spoken about my plans), I don’t want people thinking that I’m gaming the system. An alternative to that route is to merge my nations (edit: not the territory, units, or power as that was unclear —that would all be changed and new), in which case I’d keep history, green Fjalladrottning, RP a strange history for Dune Sea no longer under my control but in a Western Sahara like status, and have it all become a current PDist system, as the Two Kingdoms doesn’t have any modern story lines of real consequence oddly enough. I’d like to know everyone’s opinion. I do know that Beau is probably trusting enough for me to march forward, but I’m not sure if everyone else would. See its own thread here: http://www.europe-game.eu/index.php?threads/question-on-merger.13697/#post-356492

    Next, the consequences of the Gallian Summit held back in May should be fully coming to terms on the economies in Gallia right now. The loss of Neustria, the failure of the Gallian Summit nations to react, and with other economically tied they are/supposed to be, there should be a major case of panic between all the players and their situations. Gallia is supposed to be an important player in the global economy as well, and this should send shocks around the globe too. I fear that we’ve KO’d the global economy on ourselves as all foreign investment should be coming to an abrupt halt I’d imagine. Every nation on our map is either involved in a war, nearly at war, or communist and thus not as massively impacted. I also think that the Gallian Summit nations all being “away” at the moment when they should all be having a massive problem with the sequences of events in both the Long Sea and Burgundy is an RP mindfuck that is hard to place.

    Lastly, we’re in a unique situation of Engellstomp, where it’s 6 vs 1 + Kadikistani support, in a nation that is in absolute chaos and turmoil. Burgundy was divided in half, then thirds, then invaded. I would argue that it would be difficult for every single party involved to be able to rally the nation behind themselves, and the Balkanization of ideas and identities in this region should massive. That said, the idea that the Engells are invaders should not be lost anymore than it was for many during the 100 years war.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2019 at 11:25 AM
  4. Lars

    Lars Well-Known Member

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    even in this case, the war does not concern me, when it comes to economic repercussions, we can easily talk about it. I am open to any suggestions.
     
  5. Azraq

    Azraq Super Moderator

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    I think the first two questions deserve their own threads. The economy point we can pick in the State of the World Econ discussion.
     
  6. Engellachia

    Engellachia Administrator

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    This thing about all foreign investment being stopped may not be true. I’m not a prolific book learner or anything, but haven’t many major companies grown and achieved dominance by risking investment during wars? IBM is an obvious one. Goodyear thrives in Africa despite instability. Banks can gamble on winners and losers, a fine example being western investment in Soviet Russia and Chinese factions in World War 2. Some companies or investors may sit on their riches during conflicts certainly, but others see it as a time to conquer losers and conservatives.

    There is always room for improvements on the way we RP our economies - but not only in the negative sense, positive actions are just as often under utilized. Sorry if this comes off as contrarian, I actually hope it inspires new characters or initiatives to take potential risks in economic RP.
     
  7. Burgundian People's Republic

    Burgundian People's Republic Active Member

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    So all the various Engell nations have attacked the Republic is only receiving limited support from Kadikistan is there seriously any actual point to me RPing this? given that in the minds of most its a foregone conclusion, seriously this has a had a major blow to my motivation to write anything with the BPR.

    I mean I'm not going to ragequit or anything and I will continue writing but I just wanted my feelings made clear to the community.
     
  8. Anonymous

    Anonymous New Member

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    Submariner here. Should I just write about what the mercenaries are doing in my thread?
     
  9. Burgundian People's Republic

    Burgundian People's Republic Active Member

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    I mean I guess, until it ties into the Ground Zero Thread proper I suppose.
     
  10. Engellex

    Engellex Moderator Staff Member

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    You need to recognize that this isn't Borovanger.

    The Grand Duchy of Burgundy is essentially Europe's France, more so than any other nation in Gallia-Germania, with its position and existence having wide implications for the region. There was always an informal understanding between Engellex, Burgundy, and Serenierre that the existence of the three, as they are, sustains the balance and stability of Gallia, generally speaking. Burgundy being a Tiburan Catholic monarchy; Engellex, an Atheist republic; Serenierre, a communist.

    It falling into civil war, and yourself RPing its turn to communism, has seriously undermined that.

    The Engellexian Republic cannot simply do nothing as the entire Gallian coast goes red. That is a direct threat.

    Nobody wants to become involved. Gallia is a trick-sticky situation for non-continental powers, but this civil war RP has forced others to take an interest because Burgundy's future, and that of Gallia, has now been put in to contest.
     
  11. Beautancus

    Beautancus Well-Known Member

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    I've pointed this out before elsewhere as well. Burgundy is already in a state of chaos, and one where it seems like Communism will prevail. Which means that a Communist state will be directly across the channel from the Heart of Thaumantic Civilization. What did you expect would happen? Doing business with Kadikistan, separated by the breadth of the continent - in an attempt to further drive them into state capitalism and eventual free-market capitalism - is far from the same thing as entertaining the notion of ideological contagion being that close to Engellex.

    You are making a number of assumptions about how this will end, ICly, or OOCly, that aren't on point. Let's all wait until we've had the chance to make more than a single IC post apiece before we lose our minds and jump to conclusions, please.
     
  12. Polesia

    Polesia Well-Known Member

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    I'm inclined to agree with all the above - a communist state right in the heart of Gallo Germania where a regional power once sat www inevitably going to attract outside attention, even if not quite at the speed and ferocity we are currently witnessing. That is by no means a criticism of anyone by the way but if anything suggests the fear of communism is greater than anticipated...
     
  13. Beautancus

    Beautancus Well-Known Member

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    For my part in drafting a portion of the thinking behind this move and given some of the considerations our "peculiar institution" (Human Commodity System) incurs and has certainly given rise to in the past, I would say the reaction is actually pretty well as expected. There are maybe a half dozen other cultural and institutional features that combined to make it even more of an absolutely unavoidable eventuality (ignoring and/or isolating the Domain at the top of the list).

    Neither is the Domain oblivious to the rising profile of Post Delegationism in the general region.
     
  14. Jyskerige-Østveg

    Jyskerige-Østveg Well-Known Member

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    We are a forum the thrives in going zero to 60... or 0 to 100 if we’re playing in metrics. That said, there is a lot to be written still, and with the right support you may not RP the BPR you expected, but perhaps a fascinating place all in itself. You have a lot of options on the table as literally every bloc is standing on the welcome mat of Gallia. (Even PDism, which will write something now that I’ve figured out the merger thread.)

    So you can RP characters of up to 3-4 different factions and movements and even still create a Burgundian project you might really enjoy. It is worth saying that inaction and apathy will likely lead to the partition of Burgundy, but there is so much room for maneuver that I think you can just as likely build a communist state that is likely small and partitioned, to a renewed and whole Republic. You’ll have to be pragmatic, and certain outcomes might require the kind of attention Ovi has put into Loago. That said, this could easily become just like Loago as well and be a massive drain on all parties involved.
     
  15. Burgundian People's Republic

    Burgundian People's Republic Active Member

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    I do understand the Geopoltical situation in regards to Gallia turning red, however so far the only proof of that was a communique between diplomats ironically the police action might only radicalize people . regardless certainly lots of interesting RP potential, lots of avenues to go down that depend I suppose on the direction of the RP, hell it might even end with reconciliation with the Chagny regime and Elben.

    And with much of the leadership already gone the case could be made that those left might be those even aware of the communiques with Kadikistan

    anyway lets see what happens, at any rate it'll be interesting.

    ( apologies for the tone of my previous tone, the last few days have been somewhat difficult for me for some RL reasons and I feel it came through in my comments).
     
  16. Pohjanmaa

    Pohjanmaa Well-Known Member

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    I think you are right, but here we are. I can only imagine its because it was a race to intervene first as several players spoke of the desire to intervene when the time was right.
     
  17. Touzen

    Touzen Administrator Staff Member

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  18. Gunnland

    Gunnland FTR

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    The most important decision is about the number of players in this game: what to do about this war happening during Serenierre's now 6-week-long absence, whether to put it on ice until he returns, or how to ICly explain his non-involvement, or whether we can "involve" him.
     
  19. Beautancus

    Beautancus Well-Known Member

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    I would love for Serenierre to be included in this scenario, and encourage whoever can get in touch with him to do so.

    As has been hinted at elsewhere, this marks the first officially proper conflict Beautancus has engaged in. As a player I have gone to great lengths not to browbeat or overshadow anyone, unto literally not RPing. My extreme frustration stems from this cropping up again here. I am willing to give it another shot though, before just voiding it/taking my ball and going home.

    I know that at least two of us are still interested in attempting to push forward with this scenario. I'm not interested in pushing anyone else out of it, either, though I have to be honest in saying I don't have much interest in plotting the course of events out. I think, or thought/continue to hope that the players involved can write to the utmost of their ability and produce a dynamic narrative for it.

    I do for sure feel ever so slightly burnt, but I'm willing to be extra careful in securing our beachhead if it will allow Kadikistan to move enough forces in that Boro feels secure - if he doesn't have enough already, if they are used well.

    As again, it should be noted that there are no "Engell soldiers" present in Burgundy as yet, especially not in the city. There are a few teams of Tier 1 operators, numbering a few hundred altogether, around the city, doing very specific and stealthy things. No "regular" Airborne or Marines have arrived yet.

    I trust Spelev to be above board in all of this, and would argue that the Union would still be capable of it. It would also make for a really fun conflict story, for at least 3 or 4 of us, and that's good enough to move on for me, all by itself.

    Anyway, that's my take. I might just put Ultramar on the map and let that be a proxy war with Kadikistan in Westernesse in the end, keep all the RP effort for a region that will appreciate it. That will for sure be what I do if this is voided.
     
  20. Jyskerige-Østveg

    Jyskerige-Østveg Well-Known Member

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    I don’t see any reason to have this RP voided. Is this why you’ve been so annoyed by things? I wasn’t aware that was even a consideration. This RP should and will move on I think. Just some things like Serenierre worth considering...
     

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