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Ambrosia

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@Justosia - moving much farther forward without you would be unfair to all of us. In the absence thread you indicated that you would be returning soon, but if that does not happen in let's say a week (from 28 April) I will be calling for moderation (as a player) to help give us a path forward. These are unique times and circumstances for some, and I can't begin to imagine what some of us are going through or not - but we are advancing our story at a leisurely pace in anticipation of some response.
 

Sylvania

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I think at this point it is fair to say that Justosia isn't going to make it back before tomorrow (the one week deadline) so in the interest of this storyline something really needs to be done at this point as my own RP is starting to be affected by this.

With the rona going around I understand that there might be a bunch of reasons as to why Justosia hasn't shown up or had time to even view the site, however he has a history of poofing right when the going gets tough for his nation and it cannot be ruled out that his reasons for not being around are for the self preservation of his nation hoping that the rest of us would get fatigued waiting for him.

Well I am fatigued so I guess that was successful, however I am not forgetting about this RP.

So here is how I see it, there are a few reasons as to why this coalition of nations have gathered up: They see Justosia as a rouge nation exploiting his people for military projects. This whole thing was kicked off by his announcement to build another air craft carrier and more ballistic missile subs "for defense." Justosia has history of strange and unjustified diplomatic temper tantrums that Sylvania and Ambrosia see as a threat.

Obviously the war justification is shaky at best (when has that ever stopped a country from going to war lmao), but we had a contingency plan for when we couldn't provoke the Justosians into making a bad move. This is all OOC information and should NOT be incorporated into any other persons RP should this continue without the proper RP being done in the first place.

To sum this there needs to be a mod intervention here of some sort.

I think there are a few options we have here:

  1. The coalition nations win outright in a fleet battle that sees the inexperienced Justosians lose a good portion of their fleet and carriers 50-75 percent. The invasion of Vanguardia to secure oil fields and as a base for further invasion of Justosia is successful. Justosia sues for peace and very punitive terms are given. This would all still need to be RP'ed by myself and whoever wants to continue their involvement.
  2. Justosia takes a lesser than option 1 OOC penalty for continually poofing when things get tough for him. The RP stops and nothing happens after.
  3. The RP is canceled and everything pertaining to it is voided and goes back to the way it was. (Obviously this isn't preferred.)

Anyways pls help me mods/warmods and give your opinions @Madurja @Johnston Isle @Polesia

If you have any good suggestions to the ones i mentioned pls put them here should you have time permitting @Ambrosia
 

Madurja

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Hmm. I want to sleep on this before I offer a concrete opinion. I do note that its basically been weeks since he said "be back soon" or something like that. Situations like these are never easy. So, tomorrow when I have a break, I will re-read the RP up to this point and weigh that against the possible solutions (which include your proposed options).
 

Madurja

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So, I reviewed RP and thought about this in detail. I really wanted to give this some due diligence. So I will list my conclusions.

1. Justosia's extended absence is not appropriate in the sense that his last post was exceptionally vague and his original absence posting regarded fatigue. This is NOT a slight against those who need to take a break. Taking a break on the verge of war, without full communication in terms of return date, is not acceptable. This kind of action leaves the players involved and the entire geographic region in limbo. Again, I want to stress that I am NOT criticizing breaks for fatigue or personal reasons. Absences, especially in this case, require clear communication. This was not done.

2. Zeek, your options are logical and cover a broad number of outcomes. However, I must say that option 1 is utterly counterproductive. Option 3 seems a bit extreme. I really considered each one and what implications it might have. I am hesitant to call for "ooc penalties" for poofing as the evidence is only circumstantial.

3. My proposed solution is simple.
a. He will be given a span of 3 more days to return before any RP action is taken. This is simply a courtesy.

b. At that point. RP may resume. A singular battle or string of battles to start is preferred. I am not against Justosia losing some manner of his fleet but 50-75% losses carrier are too steep. I would say perhaps 20% of carriers. Why? This gives Justosia a chance to return and still be able to contribute to the RP without seriously handcuffing him.

c. If after 7 days (including the 3 days mentioned above) there is still no activity from Justosia, something along the lines of option 1 may be taken. Justosia will have had around a month on the brink of war to communicate adequately with members involved.


This is simply a proposal and is not any decision. I firmly believe in talking this out before I offer an official mod ruling. I also want to see what @Ambrosia has to say on this.
 

Ambrosia

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An element of this that we are missing is that we needed to either entice him into attacking first, or fake that as I was beginning to imply was possible. It’s kind of like we were about to engage in a high stakes game of chicken IC and we stopped getting an IC response.

If we are going to try to press the battle aspect I suppose we need to decide who actually takes the first violent action?

As I’ve put into the thread I may be willing to false flag myself to get it going, but that may not be ideal. We have to ask somehow if the Justosians would have taken the bait first though?
 

Sylvania

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Thanks Fleur for getting on this as quick as you have. I find your findings quite reasonable and I also thank you for that. Barring no further comments from other mods. Or suggestions from someone else that might be also considered by us that are involved. This seems like the best way to go about it and I have no suggestions to add to this potential ruling.

To @Ambrosia I think we already have an idea as to how we can get this thing going so that doesn't seem to be a big issue imo.
 

Madurja

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Honestly, I hope he returns. The extra 3 days I think is generous. Then the following 4 days gives time to start a conflict, if that is your desire, and progress and still give @Justosia a full (additional) week from this to return. If he returns within that timeframe-he will have taken losses but he would still be combat effective.

I am cagey about accusations of poofing (is this the term you kids are using these days?) though. My own life has been a massive roller coaster so I am sympathetic to personal needs. However, more clear communication is necessary in a situation such as this.


Lets see what dialogue comes of this. Perhaps @Touzen has input. After I am satisfied that dialogue on the proposal is over, the 3 day clock starts ticking. After that- RP away.

Note- if you're looking for a situation in which things formally kick off, an idea is to have both sides accuse the other of firing first. Maybe two solitary frigates or destroyers. Each side produces evidence that the other fired first. Then nobody is really sure. False flag attacks are a bit overdone I think. Just an idea.
 

Madurja

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I messaged Justosia this morning and was hoping he got an email notification that he had a PM. Not sure if thats what happened or if its coincidence. Either way, he has posted in the absence thread. Hopefully, he will see the link to this thread I have sent him.
 

Sylvania

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Honestly, I hope he returns. The extra 3 days I think is generous. Then the following 4 days gives time to start a conflict,
Just to be sure, are we just gonna go ahead and make this an official ruling to go by? I am completely ok with following it if so. However I do have one question. May we post a lead up to our "justification" in those three days? or should we just not post at all until that time has passed. Thank you.
 

Madurja

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I should have been more clear. That's my bad. Essentially, I want to hear any feedback on this. While I am tempted to just make a ruling, it is wise to hear out the forum. I may change my decision based on feedback.

Proposed Timeline

  1. Tomorrow (5/6) morning, if there is no constructive feedback by then, the 3 day clock would start.
  2. Over those 3 days, I would appreciate no combat or actual justification RP. Though, I think the lead up is fine.
  3. After 3 days, the RP can begin in full.
  4. On 5/9, another clock begins to run. RP continues. From 5/9 to end of day 5/13, Justosia would take moderate losses but still be combat effective.
  5. End of day 5/13, if there is still no response from @Justosia, we will discuss how to progress in terms of the outcomes. After which, you will be relatively free to RP this out.

    Is this more clear or did I complicate things?
 

Johnston Isle

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Haven't had chance to fully read the latest yet in here but I did catch a few parts while I was skimming. When Justosia first disappeared....I had PMd him and he was on like snap of a finger, as I was trying to get his return (having half my fleet in limbo sucks) and that's where he came about with the fatigue story, and bunch of other stuff.....pretty much pointing to an avoidance, and even before ambros start of this thread I had sent him another PM (day or two before) and he still hasn't been on.

I have no ill will towards others even when disagree on certain things I still get along with everyone. My skin in this thing was trying to antagonize a response of some sort and do a little espionage, and that was even before the big buildups of others had started.
 

Touzen

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I was pinged to comment here, but as I’m allied to Zeek, I don’t feel it’s appropriate for me to comment in an admin capacity.
 

Nichtstein

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For all that my 2 cents are worth, as somebody not allied to anyone and with no pixels and stakes in anything, I believe that Fleur came up with an excellent compromise and process flow.

That was my meaningful post for today.
 

Madurja

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Seeing no objections, the proposed solution is now a ruling. The 3 day clock starts today. @Justosia has 72 hours to return.
 

Madurja

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So. Seeing as I am going to be the defacto warmod (since this is likely going to be a unique situation), I am going to layout my expectations for when/if conflict arises.

1. Even though Justosia will likely not be around, I expect some level of realism. I.e. No godmodding yourself. Be prepared to take losses.
2. I am, either for or against your benefit, military minded. I have a fair amount of experience practically and academically with these matters. I will need troop strength. A general overview of your military- what amount of your military is combat oriented? Are they conscripts, reservists, or professionals? What is your naval ability? How big is your sealift command (i.e. ability to move troops/equipment around. Only the US has significant sealift command IRL)? If any of this confuses you, please let me know. I am happy to explain/clarify.
3. Please see this
4.. Given that Justosia is not/probably will not be around, I expect high quality RP. This means a phased war. I do NOT want to see you claiming victory in a matter of days. We are not doing this simply to conclude it. Quality RP matters.
5. Justosia's military may be inexperienced but that does not mean they are inept.
6. Remember, end of day 5/13, if @Justosia is not back, we will discuss how to progress. After that, game on.
7. If this turns to a ground war, I expect YOU to provide maps to show troop locations/line of advance.
8. For purposes of this RP, if other nations somehow join the conflict, you will be held to the same standards as above.
 
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Ambrosia

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Strike Group West (1 of 2 total carrier groups, the other being immobilized on the East Coast)

WS Alderman

Carrier Wing Groups:


Strike Fighter Squadron Three - F/A 18 Peregrine (12)
Strike Fighter Squadron Five - F/A 18 Peregrine (12)
Strike Fighter Squadron Seven - F/A 18 Peregrine (12)
E-2



Helicopter Maritime Strike Squadron 2 - SH-60 Archinga

Accompanying Ships:

WS Corwyn
WS Prether
WS Gurley - Enis-c
WS Ridley

---

Basing it all on America is what it is, but my justification would be that I'm sandwiched between two America type defense nations in Sylvania and Beautancus that Ambrosia would have based things off of.

Flinging this type of group at the Augustine Islands with some collection of Marine ships in tow made more sense to me before the globe and stretching of the islands away from Justosia further. It was an effort of offering protection that Elben did not ask for or need, and would be a message to Justosia that things are getting more serious. The Marine group is meant to be 10 thousand ferrying to a total of 30 thousand in total with the possibility of bringing the Army in behind them later. Writing the entire logistical scheme of that is beyond my ability, but I obviously foresee it being impossible for Hedwig Harbor and the Augustines to support - which I think I've intentionally foreshadowed as over pressure that could lead to friction with the hosts.

I do not have a grand strategy on how to use any of this right now, and it's occurred to me that they may never actually advance past the Augustines before returning home. However the next step will either be the false flag event or probing out past the Augustines.

Edit: about their condition - it's a professional force with no modern warfare experience. They have drilled against themselves I imagine, but not against the real thing at all.
 
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Madurja

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A good measure of what it takes to bring a division sized element into combat via the sea is to look at the Falklands conflict. While 40 years old, it still is probably the closest example. Grenada is another option. For logistical reference. Just keep it in mind that today, only the US has a real sealift command that can ferry a mass invasion force and keep it supplied. I am not saying its not possible for you, only to consider what that implies.

If you look at the Falklands, it took a lot of effort for the Royal Navy to pull together the resources it did and it even (if I remember correctly) had to convert some civilian trawlers into minesweepers. Just take note of the logistics. Add some support ships and you should be good for 10k marines.
 
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