Retalian Littoral States Meeting

[Remuria]

Continued from herE:

You must be registered for see links

@Carinthia-Harkány @Eiffelland @Vinedia @Serenierre @Occitania

OOC: OK, let's just proceed to roll then, to avoid redundancy in first posting proposals to then discuss them.

*-*-*-*

LOSENA MEETING OF RETALIAN LITTORAL STATES

The meeting of the representatives of the Retalian Littoral States, at least those that chose to participate, was organised in the sprawling megapolis of Losena on the island of Ascona, towering above the waters of the Retalian Sea. The meeting itself was held at the Hofften Losena five star hotel, with rooms booked at the Grand Duchy's expense, security around the perimeter and a lavish conference room set up in a naval theme, and conference staff consting mostly of young women in rather short striped blue and white dresses.

Hosting the conference on the part of the Grand Duchy of Retalia was the Prime Minister himself, Walther Grauholzer, as the elected leader of the Retalian People and Warden of the Sea.

 

[Rheinbund]

Minister for Economic Affairs Dr. Stephan Röpke and his delegation arrived at the airport of Losena, with a small business jet A motorcade took the Eiffellandian delegates to the Hofften Losena Hotel, where the young conference staff members showed them to their rooms before they would attend the conference. Of course one of the discussion topics during the preliminary internal discussions of the team was the appearance of the conference staff.

 

[Serenierre]

Commissar Bernard Lavosnier had arrived in Losena with apprehensions and confusion regarding the summit that had been hastily called. He noticed that the Eiffellanders, as usual, were there to hold the hand of their wayward junior partners, however it seemed that Lavosnier was the first of the truly littoral states to show up at the conference.

His confusion at the fact that he was sitting in Nichtstein stemmed from the fact he had only recently, perhaps as little as a month ago, secretly held talks with the disgraced Foreign Minister de Ludovico. In that conversation, the Nichtsteiner man had been adamant that the question over the Retalian was simply non-negotiable. Not only that, but the Government in Altburg had since become increasingly hostile over the question of the Retalian Sea and less than favourable over the plight of the fishermen that found themselves running foul of the regime imposed on the beautiful sea by the self-proclaimed "Wardens of the Seas & Guardians of the Gates". The pomposity of that claim in the invitation certainly had been the source of much humour in Villesen.

And his apprehensions arose from the seemingly untrustworthy attitude of the Nichtstein government. Could the fruits of a summit actually hold? Had he, Bernard Lavosnier, not

You must be registered for see links

? He had. But had it also not been the case that following a simple row between fishermen that was broken up by Serenien Coast Guards, the Altburger Government had indicated that it would not be pursuing the deal struck between Lavosnier and de Ludovico. All over a minor dispute between rival fishermen. So, how could Villesen trust the Government of Prime Minister Grauholzer to hold firm and true to the issue of the Retalian - an altogether messier and much more complicated venture.

But despite his misgivings - no matter how severe they were - he put on a smile and politely greeted the host and made his way to the conference room where the summit would take place. He was accompanied by his deputy, three aides, and a number of maritime specialists.

Once he entered the conference room, he noted with amusement that the Nichtsteiner government had placed tasty treats for the eye. He could only laugh inside. Did they think they could distract the grey, old men with their women? What hope did this conference have when the hosts were so cavalier. Taking his seat, he looked over to Vice Commissar Sébastien Moureau. He was a young man, only thirty five, but a shining beacon of intellect in the ranks of the Serenien Government.

"Moureau," the Commissar whispered, "Be careful of those women, they are sirens meant to ensnare not sailors but us statesmen. Be weary of their songs. If you want to keep rising, remember, head above heart."

"Yes, sir." He seemed to be taken aback by the censure. Had he looked at one of them too long? Apparently so.

 

[Remuria]

"So, gentlemen and ladies, pray, may I welcome you to Losena," the Retalian Prime Minister exclaimed to kick off the discussion part of the meeting. He did not consider it a summit or a conference or anything to that matter. But a sync-up meeting, like was common in commercial structures, to synchronise he various departments before proceeding with strategic items. Even if departments hated each other, which was common. "I hope you found the breakfast excellent, the lunch will be even better and tonight, after a very productive night, we shall go out to the Pearl of Ascona restaurant by the waterfront and enjoy some seafood. For those with allergies, those vegan and vegetarians, worry not, they've prepared a special menu that will suit your tastes!"

"Now, once we shall be seated, I propose to clear out the most important point on the agenda, so that everyone present in this room can indeed synchronise with the others. And maybe we shall even end with a common understanding on this crucial point. The crucial point being... what exactly is the Retalian Sea," as Walther Grauholzer continued, the map with borders was projected on the screen in front of the guests.

"This is the current view the Grand Duchy of Retalia has of what makes the Retalian Sea, from the red lines drawn here, separating the two bodies of water that are the Long Sea and the Retalian Sea, with the Retalian Archipelago right there in the middle. As such, provided our view of the area, the littoral states of the Retalian Sea are: Retalia, Serenierre, Eiffelland, Occitania, Vinedia and Carinthia-Harkany. The Retalian Sea than continues on towards the landmass on which the border between Serenierre and Carinthia-Harkany rests."

"Now, ladies, gentlemen, please, put forward any remarks, comments or issues you might have with this very first point. It will be interesting to see what the general consensus is on the sea itself from the nations that sit on this very sea."

You must be registered for see images

 

[Serenierre]

Commissar Lavosnier heard the Prime Minister speak. Eiffelland, a littoral country of the Retalian? How preposterous, he thought to himself but betrayed no emotion. He leaned in close to Vice Commissar Moureau and whispered, "This is just a strategic move. Grauholzer wants the protection of Trier over their ludicrous claims of territoriality over the seas. If any of these other representatives are paying attention, they'll see the ruse." The younger man nodded in response. They both continued to listen.

When it was his turn, he switched on the microphone, "Honourable representatives," Lavosnier said, "I do believe that the honourable Prime Minister is quite generous with his definition of what amounts to Retalian waters." He smiled in that disarming way he was known for, looking at the Nichtsteiner-cum-Retalian politician. "The Retalian Sea, by its very definition ends at the point where the Retalian Archipelago ends. Thus, while I concur on the point, quite obviously that to its north it meets the pristine shores of Serenierre and Carinthia-Harkany, to the east it cannot meet the shores of Eiffelland for that is far too far away from the true definition of what is the Retalian sea." He cleared his throat, "History and convention - and not to mention geography - has seen that the Long Sea and the Retalian Sea have been separated from one another by the majestic archipelago that now forms the Grand Duchy of Nichtstein... or rather should I say Retalia," he shifted in his seat, "The change is quite recent, no? So perhaps such slips of the tongue are hopefully understandable."

"But, this is a rather interesting point as well, from my understanding Monsieur Premier," he said, lapsing momentarily into Frankish, "But, Your Excellency, I am rather intrigued by a phrase that was used on the invitation to this meeting by the Altburg Government." He flipped through his notes and found the letter in question. The words had been underlined in Premier Martinique's forceful hand (a large exclamation mark around the encircled phrase following it.)

"'Guardians of the Retalian Gate'," he read the wordings of the invitation that were written on his notes, "A noble title to adopt for sure, especially as your country adopts a new name for itself. However by doing so, I must wonder out aloud for the benefit of this gathering..."

"The Retalian Gate, is such an important concept." He looked around the room, gauging the response of his fellow members, "But a gate is a very particular thing. Does not a gate signify a boundary... a boundary beyond which exists something else... for if there is a Gate... then it means there is a wall... and if there is a wall... is not a boundary?" He grew silent for a moment. "So, honourable ladies and gentlemen, if I was to proceed further in my analogy... the Retalian islands of the archipelago are the wall which serves as the boundary between the Long Sea and the Retalian Sea." He looked at the Eiffellander Minister with a curious look but always polite. "So you see, Your Excellency," he looked once more at the host. "The matter of what is the Retalian Sea is quite simple."

The Serenien aides quickly projected the map that the Cartographer's Department had prepared for the meeting. "Ladies and gentlemen, as far as the République Populaire is concerned this is the Retalian Sea; the states which is arrives at are as follows: Carinthia-Harkany, Occitania, Retalia, Serenierre, & Vinedia. With, as I explained, the Grand Duchy formerly known as Nichtstein - henceforth Retalia serving at the boundary."

"I yield the floor to comments."

You must be registered for see images

 

[Remuria]

"The points of the representative of the People's Republic of Serenierre is well noted," Walther smiled back at Lavosnier, not phased at all by the Serenierrese attempt at provocation. After all, that happened every hour of every day, Retalians were used to that. "We here believe that Mister Lavosnier projects a very poetic and thrilling view of what the Retalian Gate is, aside from a strait, and of what the Retalian Archipelago is, aside from a selection of islands. Mister Lavosnier's words would echo with pride in the hearts of many Retalians.

"But regardless of poetic ramifications, I thank Mister Lavosnier for his very clear definition of what Serenierre considers to be the Retalian Sea and as a chair of the meeting I shall put this point of disagreement down. This clarity, I am certain, shall allow us all in this room to finally settle down on some agreed principles.

"At this stage, I can simply say that the definitions and notions of what makes a marginal sea and what doesn't are vague and there is no authority on the matter. The point of view of the People's Republic of Serenierre is as valid as the view of the Grand Duchy of Retalia, provided Serenierre orients itself on a different set of criteria to define the marginal seas. For the Grand Duchy of Retalia, marginal seas are inlet bodies of water defined by geographic mainlands. Some countries could call this definition more appropriate of a 'gulf'. But then again, what is a gulf, if not a sea?

"So, for the Grand Duchy of Retalia, the Retalian Sea is limited by a non-physical boundary running from the southern tip of Eiffelland to the southern tip of Occitania. It is my hope, Mister Lavosnier, that you shall accept that there is truth in the Grand Duchy's view of the matter as well, even if you do not agree with it. For the People's Republic, clearly, the Retalian Archipleago serves as a natural boundary and the body of water between Eiffelland and Retalia is called something else. We see that there is truth in Serenierre's view, even if this time we do not agree with it.

"Yet, I yield word to the other participants of this meeting to understand their views and positions."

 

[Rheinbund]

Minister Dr. Röpke had the impression that it would have been better to send in State Secretary for Defence Kapt. a.D. Ferdinand Jung as well, because the latter used to be a submarine captain before he became State Secretary. On the other hand, Röpke himself had learned enough of topography to handle this situation. Furthermore, one of the later topics to discuss could be trade, and then his presence would be favourable.

He switched on the microphone.

"I'm awfully sorry that I have to correct Commissar Lavosnier in this matter. Unfortunately, I did not take an atlas with me, but I can tell you that I learned at school that the name of the sea arm west of Eiffelland is the Retalian Sea, like all the waters around the Retalian Islands and Mainland Retalia. However, I think that the reason why this meeting was organised is a different one than having the possibility to compare the atlasses as used in Eiffelland and Serenierre. The main topic of this meeting will probably be the status of the waters between and around the Retalian islands, because what happens there can be a safety risk for Retalia. Let's focus our discussion on that."

 

[Remuria]

"Thank you, Doctor Röpke," Walther nodded to the Eiffellander. "Indeed, you have identified the main subject quite well and clearly. Yet again, however, it is always curious to note that countries will often disagree even on the most basic of things. Now, while we wait for our most esteemed colleagues from other countries to speak, pray, let us consider that alongside the disagreement on what exactly is the marginal sea, or inlet sea, that we all share, what are the other disagreements that bring us here today."

"The Grand Duchy of Retalia, or the Grand Duchy of Nichtstein, as you will wish to call it, Mister Lavosnier," Walther nodded to the representative of Serenierre with a grin, "as both appellations are formal and correct and I assure Your Excellency will cause no offense by using either of them, has, as we are all aware, historically claimed and enforced its claims within the waters broadly delimited by the Retalian Archipelago. This claim is based on the control not only of the larger landmasses, but also the smaller islands and even rocks spread all over the archipelago. The total count of such landmasses is in the thousands, and even our own scholars sometimes tend to disagree on the exact numbers. The Lorelei Rocks, in fact, are one such case."

These rocks were quite a dangerous place, as well, in fact, meaning Retalian navigators steered their ships and foreign shipping away from this geographic curiosity, transformed into a natural reserve and popular with tourists from all over the world.

"The claim is further based on the fact that most of our country is these islands, most of our economy is in these islands, most of our population. So to us, I hope my dear colleagues will understand, control of the sea equates our very survival. It is a cornerstone of what our country is built on. We consider this as you would consider your own lands, and just as you would take care of your lands, so do we take care of our sea. However, and I pray, dear colleagues, that you shall find in these no aggressive intent towards your own nations. As, we shall be honest, we have no territorial ambitions beyond our own borders," Walther said as he went on with his monologue.

He sipped a glass of water to strike a pause in his speech as he looked around the room. The news he would break to the rest of the audience later required some preparatory work first, getting the guests to vent some steam, understand the extent of the disagreements, maybe also think of what was to be gained or to be lost in any upcoming maneuver. And if at the end of the day all went back home with agreement in hand, then it would be a good day. If not, not much was lost under the Sun.

"Yet, and we shall all find a point of agreement, just as international trade crosses land borders and airspace, so does international trade cross the seas. And, I hope all in this room shall agree,

You must be registered for see links

the trade going in and out of the Retalian Sea. And, we shall also agree, your military transit has also gone through unimpeded, albeit with some safety measures to ensure the security in busy lanes.

"As such, dear guests, and Mister Lavosnier, do you really feel yourselves... walled in? That the Grand Duchy is somehow a wall that prevents you from reaching the outside world? It is our understanding here in Retalia that the first priority for all in attendance here is ensuring that trade can flow? Pray, tell me, if you consider us in misconception."

 

[Serenierre]

"Before I respond any further, I would be grateful if the Nichtsteiner representative presented a full map of their claims in the Retalian and further intimated to the body gathered here today what is the nature of the claim. Subsequent to that, we shall also present our claim and we urge all nations present here to do the same.."

OOC: I'm doing this so that I don't flood the RP before other people have had a chance to comment.

 

[Rheinbund]

Röpke had already his laptop open. He had an image of the map of the sea between Eiffelland and Retalia on the hard disk. He took that image, saved it under a different name, opened that file in a graphical program, and drew a red line. Then he saved the picture, both on the hard disk and on a 3.5 inch diskette.

"Prime-Minister Grauholzer, I just saved a map of the sea between your and my country on my laptop, and on a diskette. Could I please show it on screen?" he asked. Grauholzer offered to plug the cable of the projector into Röpke's laptop. Then the map was shown on the wall.

"Thank you Prime-Minister Grauholzer. Ladies, gentlemen, what you see here, is a map of the sea between Eiffelland and Retalia. On that map, I drew a red line, from the point at which the land border between Eiffelland and Retalia hits the sea, to the place where the Retalian Sea ends. This line is drawn in the middle between Retalia and Eiffelland. We consider the area to the right of that line our exclusive economic zone. We don't have any problems with commercial and recreational vessels there, but we do have a problem with military vessels not belonging to Retalia, Bourgogne, Pelasgia or ourselves there. Furthermore, foreign fisher fleets should ask us for permission to fish there before they start fishing."

You must be registered for see images

OOC: Given the fact that technologically we are still around 2000, USB-sticks are not abundantly available yet. That is the reason why I mentioned the 3.5 inch diskette. And now I am going to post a reply to my industries thread in which the Rathenau Gruppe is presented. I am going to present the USB stick to Europe

 

[Occitania]

"I too want to see a map of Retalia's full claims." The Occitan spoke "For us, we do not feel walled in at all, addressing Mr. Grauholzer's statement. What we disagree with is what claiming a sea means. You say that Retalia will continue to allow trade and military through these waters. However, then are they really Retalia's waters if no border is enforced? For the benefit of your nation as-well, I inquire, is your claim to the Retalian sea separated from your own territorial waters?"

 

[Oneida]

Csaba Nemes leaned back in his chair and left out a sigh that was audible enough to be a distraction from the conversation. The Minister of Finance was sent in the hopes of giving the impression that the Empire viewed this conference as a economic gathering of nations bounded by geography. However, no one in Hallein really believed a matter of economics would be discussed here. The Minister could not recall the countless hours he spent with his colleagues in the Ministry of Defense and Foreign Affairs. The only thing that would settle control of the Retalian would be the number of battle ships each nation had parked in it - but cheers for trying for peace.

The Empire is in a precarious situation. With the exception of an absent Vinedia, the Empire is the only country here that only has access to the world's oceans through the Retalian Sea. Hallein did not care how many tiny rocks the Grand Duchy wanted to claim, there was no solution that would be deemed acceptable that did not include a straight passage from Imperial ports to the open ocean by means of international waters.

Naturally, the Retalians would propose some obnoxious claim of the boundaries of the sea in order to include Eiffelland at the conference. Otherwise, all nations gathered would simply ignore the Grand Duchy in its entirety. Minister Nemes made a quick glance to Commissar Lavosnier. Serenierre would be the Empire's best ally in this conference.

Minister Nemes was interested by the Eiffellander's willingness to permit Pelasgian military vessels near their haphazardly drawn line. He quickly jotted that down in his notebook as a point to bring back to Hallein.

"Gentlemen," Nemes began " It is quite disheartening to learn that the atlases of Germania are so inconsistent. I must admit that I am most surprised at the Retalian Government's suggestions of where the borders of the Sea are placed. Still enough, I am pleased to be joined by my counterpart in Eiffelland."

"I would like to join my colleagues in requesting that the Retalian Government share with us what they believe to be the territorial waters of their country. Prime Minister Grauholzer, if you would please."

 

[Rheinbund]

Minister Dr. Röpke turned his microphone on again.

"Ladies, gentlemen, of course Prime-Minister Grauholzer understands like nobody else that a connection to the seas is essential to all countries from an economic point of view, and, therefore, the Retalian Sea should be open for commercial and recreational vessels."

 

[Serenierre]

"Seeing that other nations have not followed suit of our friends in Eiffelland," Lavosnier began, "Here is the official claim of Serenien waters in the Retalian Sea." Having met with the disgraced Foreign Minister de Ludovico just recently, Lavosnier had the conflicting claims of Retalia prepared well in advance - as he had thought that the matter would be discussed there. Alas, that was not to be.

You must be registered for see images

"I must apologize for taking the liberty of presenting the Nichtsteiner claim ahead of them... however, to the best of my knowledge this is what their government claims. The Retalian Prime Minister is free to inspect the maps closer to evaluate the correctness of the demarcation points. "

"You shall notice that our Cartographer's have superimposed the official claims of Serenierre and Nichtstein-cum-Retalia and there is a small territory of disputed waters as is visible there. In addition to that, the Serenien position is that the portions that have been indicated in light blue are international waters, beyond the jurisdiction of any one nation. However these blue portions come within the maritime claims of Altburg and are duly contested by my government."

"In my conversations with the Esteemed Minister Nemes, I have come to believe that his country too believes that within the Retalian Sea there are portions of international waters over which no one country has right to claim ownership in terms of regulating the nature of maritime traffic - be it civilian, commercial, recreational, or otherwise."

"The fact that Altburg's claim is beyond what is reasonable in our view can also be seen by the fact that their claims conflict with those of their own ally."

You must be registered for see images

"I appreciate that the matter for Eiffelland is not all that serious, for they are primarily a Long Sea nation. But for most of us in the Retalian, if I may be so bold as to suggest, there needs to be a common ground at which we must arrive which respects the common heritage of the Retalian Sea without unduly favouring one party."

Lavosnier looked quizzically at the Occitanian representative. He was sure they would finally come to realise just how badly they too were impacted by the Nichtsteiner claim. A country with such a wide coast reduced to a mere alley in the sea. The travesty!

OOC: I tried to replicate the claims as best as I could. The lines are straighter in these maps but they encapsulate the same area. Also, I couldn't find the map I have with just my own claim.

 

[Occitania]

The Occitan noticed Lavosnier's gaze and decided it would be a great time to display Occitania's claim in the region, although most Serenien qualms with Retalia's claims were common with the Occitans. He also did take issue with the small protrusion of Serenien claimed waters that disputed Retalian claims, though he thought while everyone was practically against Retalia's claims, he should wait until the end when Retalia would likely find common ground before expressing his concern. So he unrolled a map of Occitania's claims to the Retalian sea following suit of Eiffelland and Serenierre.

"We have our claim as-well. Although we do not conflict with the claim of Retalia national sea claim-wise. We do conflict in what constitutes international waters. We regard the wide strait through the Retalian sea as a much needed free and open path that must extend to all the nations with coasts along the Retalian sea or with claims in it."

You must be registered for see images

 

[Oneida]

Minister Nemes paid close attention to the map proposed by the Serenien Government. The southeast had a noticeable protrusion that extended farther out than any other portion of their claim.

“Perhaps he created conflict to offer the Retalians a concession,” he thought to himself, leaning back in his chair “at any rate, it is a bargaining chip.”

The Minister took the timet o study the Occitan’s claim as well. In truth, the actual boundaries of the Carintho-Harkaner, Serenien, Vinedian, Occitan, and Retalian claims were not a serious concern to the Empire. The Empire’s small coastline at the narrowest point of the Sea meant that the Empire never sought out to be a sea-faring power. Economic claims were not crucial as there was nothing to extract – at least within the boundary that the Empire could realistically claim. It seemed that all nations were in agreement that a clear path through the Retalian was a crucial component of any treaty that could come from this conference.

“To my counterparts in the Kingdom of Occitania, the People’s Republic of Serenierre, I confidently express the opinion of the Carintho-Harkaner Empire that a passage way through the Retalian – free of any one nation’s control – is crucial and necessary to the continued economic growth of all of our nations.”

He paused for a moment while his team produced the map that the Empire was going to use to delineate the territorial waters of the Empire. It was no coincidence that the map was identical to that of the Serenien.

You must be registered for see images

“I am of the belief that the Carintho-Harkaner claim is justified and non-controversial, but please do correct him if I speak in error,” Nemes stated, shooting a quick glance to the Eiffellander. “I am equally happy to know that the border between Retalia and Eiffelland, while not falling within the Retalian, is equally non-controversial.”

The Minister leaned back in his chair.