Serenierre
Established Nation
"And Montedoro too," Hortefeux added.
The Second Gallian Summit [Attn: Gallia]
- Thread starter Oneida
- Start date
Saxe-Friesken and Polaben
Establishing Nation
[div] style="border: 0px solid #E5E8E8;; width: 175px; min-height: 50px; padding: 5px; float:left" |
[/div]
She smirked and almost laughed at the idea. “It is my understanding that you all do not encourage such separatism in your nations. Do you wish to break apart your nations? Then sure, do so. See how your de-centralized nations fair. Tyskonia and Petits-Pays are separate entities already, linked by the crown and laws that have been subjected to them both by a singular crown. When we go to events we often go as one. We have different traditions, different governance, and meanwhile we have a singular military, a singular foreign service... but if you wish to engage in this trade business, then clearly we should make our voices in the Société different... Going back to another point, then you suggest dear friend from Beira, Sir da Costa, that we may strike sentence by sentence as we please?”
You must be registered for see images
[/div]
She smirked and almost laughed at the idea. “It is my understanding that you all do not encourage such separatism in your nations. Do you wish to break apart your nations? Then sure, do so. See how your de-centralized nations fair. Tyskonia and Petits-Pays are separate entities already, linked by the crown and laws that have been subjected to them both by a singular crown. When we go to events we often go as one. We have different traditions, different governance, and meanwhile we have a singular military, a singular foreign service... but if you wish to engage in this trade business, then clearly we should make our voices in the Société different... Going back to another point, then you suggest dear friend from Beira, Sir da Costa, that we may strike sentence by sentence as we please?”
Afonso da Costa smiled at the idea. He was thinking that it would be a miracle if somehow the provinces would feel any value to be had in having a vote in what started as a continental union, turned into a league and now we're talking a society; nothing more than a skeleton organisation that Dimaso and de Grasse seem to want.
"Senhora de Grasse, the last part of the presentation of the Beiran project included a participation element, which discussed the levels of participation. Considering the positions which have been taken today, I would say that we should at first discuss that and see where we stand in the end. I do observe that probably most of us, probably with some exceptions, do want a mutual defensive agreement and to be sure that we aren't dragged in a war that started because of the imperialist ambition of one of our members," he said, understand that as much as the last bit might irritate the more hawkish Serenien, it was necessary as it was mentioned both by the Aurarian and the Tyskonian.
"Then if we would somehow manage to get an accord of mutual defence, maybe we can build up the other layers of integration, based on the model that was presented and on the real life success of the integration of Beira and Auraria. Free travel, free trade, free border crossings, yet, to the more concerned, still sovereign. Both of them," he said accentuating on the last bit.
"But I will hear the others' proposals too, as to how they see Gallia functioning, going forward, be it a union, league, or Société, because as of yet, rather than understand the view of Madurja, or Petits Pays and Tyskonia, I see more their concerns regarding our way of seeing this cooperation," he said, finishing his statement and hoping that he will take a back seat now and let the others brainstrom.
"Senhora de Grasse, the last part of the presentation of the Beiran project included a participation element, which discussed the levels of participation. Considering the positions which have been taken today, I would say that we should at first discuss that and see where we stand in the end. I do observe that probably most of us, probably with some exceptions, do want a mutual defensive agreement and to be sure that we aren't dragged in a war that started because of the imperialist ambition of one of our members," he said, understand that as much as the last bit might irritate the more hawkish Serenien, it was necessary as it was mentioned both by the Aurarian and the Tyskonian.
"Then if we would somehow manage to get an accord of mutual defence, maybe we can build up the other layers of integration, based on the model that was presented and on the real life success of the integration of Beira and Auraria. Free travel, free trade, free border crossings, yet, to the more concerned, still sovereign. Both of them," he said accentuating on the last bit.
"But I will hear the others' proposals too, as to how they see Gallia functioning, going forward, be it a union, league, or Société, because as of yet, rather than understand the view of Madurja, or Petits Pays and Tyskonia, I see more their concerns regarding our way of seeing this cooperation," he said, finishing his statement and hoping that he will take a back seat now and let the others brainstrom.
Oneida
Established Nation
Cabello was sufficiently annoyed. The bloodlust of the Serenien was discouraging and the arrogance of the Tyskonians could only be matched by Aurarians themselves. Truly, Cabello would be impressed if the arrogance was directed at any one else. These outbursts weren’t productive. As the Delegates spoke, Cabello sunk deeper in thought.
How could he go back to the Government and inform them of the meeting and still convince them that the League was noble? It was abundantly clear that Serenierre was itching for war. Their contributions to Bourgogne birthed a socialist government and they failed to ensure such a regime wouldn’t fall to Ivar. Now, they’re gearing up for war and hoping to get as many nations to support them as they can. It was unacceptable.
The Tyskonians, on the other hand, seemingly had no interest in the League unless it was unreasonably stacked in their favor. This was smart, though. They outlined a list of demands they knew the other countries wouldn’t submit to and this way they could leave the Gallian Summit saying that other nations wouldn’t compromise. It was a good talking point, and there was a part of Cabello’s mind that made him consider he too should start creating talking points to provide the government should this thing go south.
“Mr. President,” he began “I simply must defend the intentions and efforts of the Aurarine Republic. Twice, now, my country has convened summits of the Gallian nations to gather and settle our differences for the greater good of the continent. Please allow me to very clear, and very frank.”
The Minister paused.
“I categorically disagree with a notion that Solis must be ‘bolder.’ Boldness does not mean sending tens of thousands of youths to their deaths and plunging the entire world into a war of unprecedented scale. The Gallian League must not be formed with an intention of waging a great war. President Ordenes did not request this summit be the convening of a war council for some great crusade against Bourgogne, Ivar, or Rurikgrad. We are here to secure an unprecedent level of cooperation and the guarantee of long-lasting peace. If that is not the goal of the Serenien Government, then perhaps we need to have a different conversation.”
He turned his attention to the Comtesse.
“Careful with such words, ma’dam. The prospect of encouraging separation in Auraria is entirely dependent on who you’re speaking to. It’s a wonder Auraria has remained united for so long with so little internal bloodshed,” he laughed in an attempt to lighten the mood “Nevertheless, the situation of Petits-Pays and Tyskonia is certainly unique among the gathered delegates here. That must definitely be addressed.”
The Minister leaned back in his chair and began rubbing his chin.
“To the last point, about both Tyskonia and Petits-Pays having a representative in the Pan-Gallian Council. Different traditions, different governance, these things may indeed warrant separate representation, to this I can agree,” he crossed his arms “But surely you understand the problem that stems from such an agreement. Since Tyskonia share the same military and foreign service, and answer to the same Crown…it would seem improper to give that Crown two votes while all other member states receive one. That being said, let me counter by saying that I entirely support the idea of welcoming a delegate from both entities, but they only have one vote – not two. This is fairness, I’m sure you understand.”
“To your other points,” Cabello put his arms down on the table and began tapping on the table “I’m sure something can be arranged. Diplomacy is an art of compromise, after all. I hesitant to grant any one member of the League special privileges over another. The mutual obligations that we share in order to have access to the benefits should not, in fairness, be varied from member to member. It is improper to court a country by changing the obligations they have to the League.”
“Therefore, I agree that at each summit, a maximum of three items can be put up for vote and it will be the determination of each summit to decide those three items. I agree that all member-states should have the ability to opt out of one of the items we vote on, for whatever reason they so desire – with the exception being anything that involves funding of the facilities, operations, or other costs associated to maintaining the League. This, of course, is fairness. The second exception should be in matters of mutual defense – if a country is attacked, we come to their defense. We cannot compromise on that. On the flip side, if a country instigates, they do that on their own and no member is obligated to assist.”
“I need a little clarification on the grand opt outs, since the parameters are a bit confusing to me. At present, I am not inclined to be supportive, but perhaps on clarification we can agree to something. As for a second capital, you have no argument from me.”
How could he go back to the Government and inform them of the meeting and still convince them that the League was noble? It was abundantly clear that Serenierre was itching for war. Their contributions to Bourgogne birthed a socialist government and they failed to ensure such a regime wouldn’t fall to Ivar. Now, they’re gearing up for war and hoping to get as many nations to support them as they can. It was unacceptable.
The Tyskonians, on the other hand, seemingly had no interest in the League unless it was unreasonably stacked in their favor. This was smart, though. They outlined a list of demands they knew the other countries wouldn’t submit to and this way they could leave the Gallian Summit saying that other nations wouldn’t compromise. It was a good talking point, and there was a part of Cabello’s mind that made him consider he too should start creating talking points to provide the government should this thing go south.
“Mr. President,” he began “I simply must defend the intentions and efforts of the Aurarine Republic. Twice, now, my country has convened summits of the Gallian nations to gather and settle our differences for the greater good of the continent. Please allow me to very clear, and very frank.”
The Minister paused.
“I categorically disagree with a notion that Solis must be ‘bolder.’ Boldness does not mean sending tens of thousands of youths to their deaths and plunging the entire world into a war of unprecedented scale. The Gallian League must not be formed with an intention of waging a great war. President Ordenes did not request this summit be the convening of a war council for some great crusade against Bourgogne, Ivar, or Rurikgrad. We are here to secure an unprecedent level of cooperation and the guarantee of long-lasting peace. If that is not the goal of the Serenien Government, then perhaps we need to have a different conversation.”
He turned his attention to the Comtesse.
“Careful with such words, ma’dam. The prospect of encouraging separation in Auraria is entirely dependent on who you’re speaking to. It’s a wonder Auraria has remained united for so long with so little internal bloodshed,” he laughed in an attempt to lighten the mood “Nevertheless, the situation of Petits-Pays and Tyskonia is certainly unique among the gathered delegates here. That must definitely be addressed.”
The Minister leaned back in his chair and began rubbing his chin.
“To the last point, about both Tyskonia and Petits-Pays having a representative in the Pan-Gallian Council. Different traditions, different governance, these things may indeed warrant separate representation, to this I can agree,” he crossed his arms “But surely you understand the problem that stems from such an agreement. Since Tyskonia share the same military and foreign service, and answer to the same Crown…it would seem improper to give that Crown two votes while all other member states receive one. That being said, let me counter by saying that I entirely support the idea of welcoming a delegate from both entities, but they only have one vote – not two. This is fairness, I’m sure you understand.”
“To your other points,” Cabello put his arms down on the table and began tapping on the table “I’m sure something can be arranged. Diplomacy is an art of compromise, after all. I hesitant to grant any one member of the League special privileges over another. The mutual obligations that we share in order to have access to the benefits should not, in fairness, be varied from member to member. It is improper to court a country by changing the obligations they have to the League.”
“Therefore, I agree that at each summit, a maximum of three items can be put up for vote and it will be the determination of each summit to decide those three items. I agree that all member-states should have the ability to opt out of one of the items we vote on, for whatever reason they so desire – with the exception being anything that involves funding of the facilities, operations, or other costs associated to maintaining the League. This, of course, is fairness. The second exception should be in matters of mutual defense – if a country is attacked, we come to their defense. We cannot compromise on that. On the flip side, if a country instigates, they do that on their own and no member is obligated to assist.”
“I need a little clarification on the grand opt outs, since the parameters are a bit confusing to me. At present, I am not inclined to be supportive, but perhaps on clarification we can agree to something. As for a second capital, you have no argument from me.”
Consul Dimasio scribbled a few notes and frowned. There were clear tensions between Serenierre and Kadikistan. The question remained if they would grow stronger. Madurja, though capable at defending itself, might struggle to enter into conflict on foreign soil. At least, that is what his military briefs indicated. Shackling themselves to a defensive agreement would no doubt have its benefits but also its clear threat. Theoretically, Madurja controlled much access to the Long Sea...theoretically. Its navy was a hodgepodge of aged ships, some 50 years old. Though updated, they could hardly defend the Straits of Horta for very long. The army was mostly conscripts. On the other hand, such a defensive pact would include some serious protections in theory. Dimasio leaned back and weighed the options. Though he had broad executive powers, especially with foreign policy, he still would have to answer to the Camara. The ever raucous legislature would put his balls in a vice with no consultation if he agreed to such a treaty. Much of what had been said still sounded naive to Dimasio. He rubbed the bridge of his nose and wrote down some minor talking points.
"There is no doubt that Kadikistan poses a threat to world peace. As I said, not a soul here wishes to see their armies crossing their lands. Ivar's bombastic behavior speaks for itself. It is important that, as a priority, whatever that is agreed upon results in an extended hand to Ivar. This is not a move of fealty but one of understanding. They mind their business and we mind ours. In the future, perhaps solid cooperation could be fostered. Yet, we must be weary of the leadership in Ivar. The slightest provocation may tinge the relationship. National voices must not speak for the league as an entirety. While that is something we all understand in this room; it is something that others may not. The differentiation would have to be clear from the outset in the most basic terms. We must make things as basic and clear as possible that this is not an anti-pact alliance- defensive as it may be. I can safely say that if Madurja would join such a league it would do so with the most complete caution. We would likely not take part in many of the civil-economic standards and agreements" he said, holding an open hand up. "We have no qualms with our geographic brethren. The Maduran people and our legislature would oppose many actions and see them as a foreign decision rather than a collective one including Madurja's voice. There is much merit to building a foundation and adding levels after that point. Yet, I must touch on a point just mentioned. The financials of such a league, even a defensive agreement, must be fleshed out. Madurja is not the wealthiest of lands. True, we once forged a maritime empire. Our ports were once among the busiest in the world. Those days are gone. Would such a defensive league have a financial requirement for its members in terms of defense spending? If so, is this a percentage? A number in terms of Escudo we must pay? Madurja is in the midst of semi-modernization. Our budgets are already stretched thin. What commitment would be expected?" he asked coolly. Reaction forces, exercises, and garrisoned units could be rather expensive.
"There is no doubt that Kadikistan poses a threat to world peace. As I said, not a soul here wishes to see their armies crossing their lands. Ivar's bombastic behavior speaks for itself. It is important that, as a priority, whatever that is agreed upon results in an extended hand to Ivar. This is not a move of fealty but one of understanding. They mind their business and we mind ours. In the future, perhaps solid cooperation could be fostered. Yet, we must be weary of the leadership in Ivar. The slightest provocation may tinge the relationship. National voices must not speak for the league as an entirety. While that is something we all understand in this room; it is something that others may not. The differentiation would have to be clear from the outset in the most basic terms. We must make things as basic and clear as possible that this is not an anti-pact alliance- defensive as it may be. I can safely say that if Madurja would join such a league it would do so with the most complete caution. We would likely not take part in many of the civil-economic standards and agreements" he said, holding an open hand up. "We have no qualms with our geographic brethren. The Maduran people and our legislature would oppose many actions and see them as a foreign decision rather than a collective one including Madurja's voice. There is much merit to building a foundation and adding levels after that point. Yet, I must touch on a point just mentioned. The financials of such a league, even a defensive agreement, must be fleshed out. Madurja is not the wealthiest of lands. True, we once forged a maritime empire. Our ports were once among the busiest in the world. Those days are gone. Would such a defensive league have a financial requirement for its members in terms of defense spending? If so, is this a percentage? A number in terms of Escudo we must pay? Madurja is in the midst of semi-modernization. Our budgets are already stretched thin. What commitment would be expected?" he asked coolly. Reaction forces, exercises, and garrisoned units could be rather expensive.