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The Westernesse redraw

Varovia

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Tentatively considering moving from my current map spot to what is now Beautancus. He has indicated that he probably will not return, and I asked him and he approved - but I'll give it a few days more to lay out my concept and allow him a chance to think it over.
Beau seems to want to return, though there is a proposition that we have tentatively agreed upon where my new nation exists geographically between Sylvania and Beautancus. I am not sure if that is even possible, and I of course insist that changes should not negatively impact or alter nations like Sylvania or others.

I think that the easiest way would simply border redraws of southern Beautancus and the empty spots down there to accommodate a more southern Beautancus and a south central Ambrosia. No continental shifts or shoreline redraws and no change to Sylvania’s southern borderlines. That is my first proposition, and I am open to variations - I am the one asking and imposing upon others.
 

Beautancus

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I would prefer to retain the shape of my coasts as they are, particularly my barrier island feature and the Fearful Cape (that fat peninsular thing) on the Thaumantic coast, nor do I particularly care for the idea of having a coast being rendered strategically unviable (imminently possible to choke off).

I support a spot being inserted between Beautancus and Sylvania though, and would be fine with my spot being shifted south as a whole to accommodate this. I would recommend this be accomplished by using that large inland sea in the west (the Great White Lake) as a visual anchor, and it being turned into a lake system rather than a singular massive lake - similar to the irl Great Lakes but turned sideways (N to S rather than E to W). Ambrosia could then fill in the extra hundreds of miles of room created by this N to S, in the E to W sprawl and coast to coast as well. Roughly occupying a swath akin to our Colonial Virginia and Ohio Territory across to the West Coast.

This would provide us with a shared geographic feature to retain as well as being interesting post-glacial land features. Also has the benefit of not particularly impacting anyone south of Beautancus - though I would not complain over the Cassiopeian Sea gaining a bit more volume N to S either, that potential choke point is a huge source of potential griping in the future.
 
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Beautancus

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I've mentioned the idea of there being a visually represented river system in the interior before and elsewhere, an American Tigris and Euphrates rather than one enormous Mississippi as irl, this seems like the appropriate time and place to add that consideration in.
 

Sylvania

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The proposal of adding space in between Beautancus and Sylvania would require a shift of either me going north or johnston island and Southern constituent republics to go further south. I am not looking to turn into canada and i doubt johnston or engellex want to become more acquainted with our antarctic region. So I do not support anything that requires a redraw of most of westernesse. I think it's unfair to ask me, JI or Engellex to be moved for a spot insertion. I think it's also unfair to ask the mapmaker to undertake that much work for something that could possibly be worked out by border shifts down there, assuming ovi or boro even want to sign on to that.

I think Kyle's proposal is workable and worries about coastlines being hemmed in with blockades can be fixed by changing where the western southern border of Ambrosia and Beautancus' northern border meet to create a longer coast. I think on the eastern side by eliminating the cape there is more than enough room for everyone to have defensible coasts. Obviously this is just my opinion. Anything else is a matter of aesthetics which I understand can be very important to the imagination of the RP'er.
 

Varinia

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Truth be told, I am Ok with it as I have kinda passed out of the latin american phase that made me create Entre Rios. Hence, if Boro's Vaquero Free State is to be moved in the Entre Rios spot, I will be ok with is, and this will give enough space for both Beau and Kyle to set up their nations, without going to the deep equatorial jungles of the deep south Westernese, and without the pushing of Sylvania, Johnston Isle, and the SoCRUR towards the pre-arctic regions of the poles. As for Entre Rios itself, I would rather delete it, tbh, than move it, as I said, the latin american phase was a bit shorter than expected, which could be seen by the urge to return to Natal. And by deleting it, it would give way to revy, if he would return and return to his Brazul, as when I put ER on the map, I didn't observe his previous claim and I did take a part of what was supposed to be his territory.

As for me, like I said, the phase did pass and I don't really see myself continue a lot with it, other than freeze and keep it on the map just for the sake of having it there. I do still need a place to go to when boredom of Natal comes, and for that I was thinking of a Gallian nation, small and chilled.
 

Beautancus

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Being realistic, there's never going to be a resolution to the situation with Sylvania's player and myself, which will itself always mean that a weird state of non-involvement and being forced to ignore a massive chunk of land right across the border will always be the case. This is not fun or fair, and will always require that I walk on eggshells, something I'm not interested in.

The only logical solution will be to insert a space between Beautancus and Sylvania or reshape the entire continent anyway...so, someone who does make such calls and isn't involved in the situation needs to make this call, preferably now (when it will be a matter of two birds and one stone) rather than later. I would really like to have at least one active neighbor with whom I can work and worldbuild, and am more than willing to compromise to see the current state of affairs improved.
 

Pohjanmaa

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1.) I’d like to hear from Boro.
2.) I’d like to know what happens should no changes be made.
3.) I’d like to know how to make the situation more interesting for a player like Zeek who doesn’t seem to have much interest in being Canadian, or the Thaumantica players who may not wish to live with penguins. (This question is not oriented towards Zeek or the Thaumantica players, but towards those asking for changes)
4.) I’d like to know if changes are made, how can I be sure I don’t have to start making changes all over the map for similar problems in player disagreements?
 
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Sylvania

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For me, no change needs to be made. I don't have a problem bordering someone who doesn't want to RP with me nor do i want to acknowledge or RP with him either. I don't feel like i need to walk on eggshells because I am going to RP whatever I want to in my spot with the people I want to RP with. I already know what to expect from him and can act accordingly, which is what I have been doing for several months now. So for the question of what happens should nothing be changed, the answer from me is nothing happens, I keep going about my RP and continue to not acknowledge beautancus as an RP entity, which I might add is completely fine as I am not interested in rehashing old arguments or starting any new ones. As much as I'd like him not to border me I haven't asked for redraws or map spot redraws and it will continue to be that way.
 

Varovia

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2. Right, their border remains an ignore wall. I’m seeking to have some interaction with both as a neighbor. If it can’t be done I’ll pick a currently empty spot and move along - I’ve said “soon”, and by that I’ll clarify that if by Sunday we can’t reach the two players we are asking to move, or if they say no, I’ll go south myself instead. I’ve potentially wasted all of your time on top of my own, so apologies, I’ll try to make it up with RP later.

3. I’m requesting for VFS and Transimplarian Republic to make voluntary moves south rather than move Sylvania at all. No continental extensions of space north or south. He was up front from the start that he would not move at all, so I haven’t asked again.

4. Often times players quit or otherwise disappear and the problem solves itself for the mapmaker. In other cases players are just fine ignoring each other as has and will continue to happen here. Voluntary border changes happen on our map, and that’s what I am aiming for. If someone says no I won’t ask again or argue with them about this.
 

Pohjanmaa

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I’ve put some thought into this and I will be redesigning Westernesse to accommodate this request. That said, I will not be taking requests. There will be changes, I’ll try to keep in mind the ideas already presented in this thread. The new map likely won’t be released until sometime in March though.
 

Beautancus

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That works for me, your abilities as a cartographer are beyond well established. Thanks for the effort and time this will no doubt require. I do think it will be better for the community (as well as the obvious peace of mind and added opportunities previously noted), otherwise I doubt I'd have been able to justify the request to/for myself.
 
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I'm happy to move south, moving the map spot doesn't change the VFS and if it helps bring RP to the region then by all means go ahead.
 
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