Don't Call it a Reset!

[Nanuka]

Hey folks,

I wanted to start this thread because at this point, I think we can all comfortably agree the scenario has been reset with all new countries and the primary focus of RP (Justosia and Caledonia) now seemingly set up for complete removal. A number of players are keeping with their countries while others have made big moves.

I think it would be very helpful to begin the discussion on “the state of our world” such that we can begin roleplaying in earnest with a general understanding of what *has* happened or what is happening (without spoiling any potential storylines, of course).

I know there has been some talk about a multi-polar world between the (new!) communists, disgusting fascists, and even more disgusting monarchists. I’m not entirely sure if we want to explore that concept further or if the scenario overall agrees with that as a set up – but we can discuss that here!

To begin, as far as “perceptions” of the UCWR goes – I am still fleshing out a lot of details, but ultimately it is going to be a very large, economically and militarily powerful country rife with revolutionary zeal, xenophobia, and a superiority complex. I also fully intend to have the UCWR struggle internally with what obligations it has to the world or whether it should focus at home. I am happy to build off the ideas of others though and I should imagine that the UCWR is seen very negatively by many.

At any rate, hoping this thread can be a launch point to discussing some ideas for the “beginning” of our scenario.

(P.S. - if this is not the right thread, please move it to wherever it should be).

 

[Józefania]

I believe this is, in fact, the right place for this thread.

Now that that's out of the way, I presently see Josepania in this scenario as having a "policy," of sorts, equating to "socialism domestically, conservativism internationally." It may or may not be the de facto head of the Monarchist Bloc(tm), and it will be committed to stability at all costs, in part because of its internal makeup of being cosmopolitan with a bunch of different ethnicities united under one banner. That arrangement is considered totally fine and chill by all parties when things are going great, but when things go bad (significant economic downturns, destabilizing foreign policy events, extremism both domestic and foreign in general, etc.), the central government gets very, very worried and squirrely.

Therefore, diplomacy, propagating and spreading the prosperity that generally accompanies a liberal democratic constitutional monarchy (or republic) style of government, and the pursuit of maintaining the status quo, is what will define Josepania abroad.

Therefore, extremist powers such as @Azilia, @Averin, @Kougi, and the @UCWR are not going to be seen favorably. Like, at all. Don't need any of that extreme, destabilizing, radical nonsense here, thank you very much. If you're a moderate, regardless of which side of the spectrum you fall on, you're cool, and Josepania likes you.

Carrying over from the prior scenario will be the Austwegian Sea Council alliance between Josepania, @Ranrike, and @Eiffelland as a consequence of historical RP events surrounding Averin and Montellimar, as will a royal marriage between Josepania and @Saxe-Franken and Landshut. There may or may not be other things carried over, but I expect most of that will be comparatively inconsequential.

***

I also want to get the talk of nuclear weapons out of the way out of the gate. I have a mind to possess nuclear weapons (in the low hundreds quantity, ala Britain or France ceiling, India or Pakistan floor), and justify their existence through the policy of deterrence. A centuries-long feud with @Zagora that only ended in the 80s and is slowly being patched together in the present day, combined with observations of Averin conquering Montellimar so brutally after an equally brutal anti-monarchist revolution, (and potentially also lingering tensions with the @Elfríki Federation, though this one is a bit harder to justify due to the big ol' war ending in 1920-ish) would likely provide enough justification for these weapons to exist in such quantities.

This is, naturally, open to community approval and discussion.

 

[YUANGUO]

Unless someone proposes otherwise, I will be moving to change a number of news posts central to the Monarchist League, in line with making everything stay relevant. The changes will completely eliminate any mention of the League, while not compromising on the existence of the Yuanese Regent. The context will be basically the Emperor taking a step back to serve as a mentor for the young Regent, while the latter for the first time makes his moves on the world stage. The Great Council and other instruments, yadda yadda yadda, continue to exist. But, basically deleting the Monarchist League (and if there are other things I see aren't sensible anymore, I will delete them as well, and change Yuan's storyline to adapt. I will mention them here if any come up.

On the topic of Tyran, whom I have some major economic news postings about. If anyone (newcomers, old, whoever) would like to replace their position and keep whatever major benefits (tariff reductions, trade agreements etc etc / see:

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) they have gained, please let me know ! !

Cheers : )

 

[Eiffelland]

Everything said above about Eiffelland is correct.

Furthermore, as part of the general soft reboot, I am going to introduce some more sovereignties within Eiffelland. The Stolzenau family returns, but this time as Fürste instead of Dukes, and this time without side activities in organised crime, and without

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. He is only very conservative.

 

[Ostmark]

Ostmark will continue unhindered to navigate the time-space continuum of

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.

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[Elfríki]

(and potentially also lingering tensions with the @Elfríki Federation, though this one is a bit harder to justify due to the big ol' war ending in 1920-ish) would likely provide enough justification for these weapons to exist in such quantities.

This is, naturally, open to community approval and discussion.

If it helps, we could also have another conflict in the 50s?

 

[Eiffelland]

That could be an idea.

And eh, I would also have nuclear weapons according to France's idea behind the Force de Frappe: If you want to add Eiffelland to your empire, then Eiffelland will inflict more damage to your empire than the worth of Eiffelland. Think of 300 strategic nukes (and no tactical nukes).

 

[Averin]

Oh, everyone has nukes then. I'll just develop them then.

 

[Eiffelland]

I was already presuming that you have them, to be honest.

 

[Averin]

Nope, and none of you have any real good reason for having them either.

 

[Nanuka]

I go back and forth on this. On the one hand, I had tossed around the idea of the Oneidans nuking Skokie during the Revolution in a last ditch attempt to quell it and the result is that the CCCR is very anti-nuke. However, I figured that’s extreme and I bumped up the revolution to 1937 anyway. (Though still, may be a cool idea to explore…)

I have been toying with the ideological divides in the CCCR and nuclear weapons. Hardline revolutionaries - or our conservatives - see a standing military as inherently authoritarian and counterrevolutionary. In theory, the development and maintenance of a nuclear arsenal enables a smaller all around military and that could be an olive branch (irony!) extended to the conservative wing.

However, a smaller standing military and big nuclear arsenal I feel actually limits my ability to engage on the world stage since sending a carrier group to rattle the saber is a far more frequent RP maneuver than threatening to nuke someone - or actually doing it.

Ultimately, it’s a classic case of escalation. If nobody has nukes, I see no reason the CCCR should invest in them. If everyone has them, then I struggle to see a reason that the CCCR doesn’t.

 

[Azilia]

My opinion on the nukes is that we don't have any true reason ICly for the development of the atomic bomb. Do I think they need to be prohibited? No. But I do think it should be something that must be extensively developed ICly. As the idea behind them was ultimately a way of the first era of shock and awe followed by the theory of "we'll make it so costly for you to rebuild that itll take more than a generation to rebuild" which I just wouldn't see any historical war or animosity being that great even with the ideological divides.

As well as it inhibits Rp when the nuclear button lingers, as most nations we all play are capable of such things with the sizes of our economies etc.

 

[Eiffelland]

Nope, and none of you have any real good reason for having them either.

What about being in-between the jaws of a madman-country of communists who don't consider themselves communists, backed by a bunch of phalangists? If If your map claim is honoured, @Averin , you basically control what sails into and out of the Siren Sea.

There must be a reason why Eiffelland and the countries east of it did not succumb to Averinish pressure. That can only be because the price of taking it up against Eiffelland and the countries east of it was too high.

That is something that can be backed up by nukes, by an ass-kicking navy and air force, or by both.

In any case, if a discussion on nukes is started, I will stick to its outcome.

 

[Eiffelland]

Something else, @Averin . I would like to propose an alternative to your story of the conquest of Montelimar. The reason is, that I doubt whether you would have been able to conquer it in a surprise attack. I think that the United Hanseatic States (which still existed during those days I think) and Eiffelland would have helped the Montelimarians against you, and then you would not have been able to conquer Montelimar.

The addition I propose is the following. Like Averin, Montelimar went through a period of instability, leading to a revolution that was hi-jacked by the Party of the Hand, i.e. Averin. In that case, it would not have been Averin who would have been confronted with a hostile population, but Eiffelland and the United Hanseatic States if they would have intervened.

Or am I overlooking something?

 

[Azilia]

What about being in-between the jaws of a madman-country of communists who don't consider themselves communists, backed by a bunch of phalangists? If If your map claim is honoured, @Averin , you basically control what sails into and out of the Siren Sea.

There must be a reason why Eiffelland and the countries east of it did not succumb to Averinish pressure. That can only be because the price of taking it up against Eiffelland and the countries east of it was too high.

That is something that can be backed up by nukes, by an ass-kicking navy and air force, or by both.

In any case, if a discussion on nukes is started, I will stick to its outcome.

Still don't think it would be enough for nuclear weapons. Nuclear research had been ongoing prior to WW2 but never taken seriously, it wasn't until WW2 and the massive scale of warfare witnessed that such a weapon and cost was deemed as feasibly worth the cost. A single nation on nation conflict wouldn't be worthy reasoning for developing them in my eyes, especially since it wasn't an existential crisis.

The nuclear weapons have always been one of those things that ICly ruin gameplay cause realistically, every nation in our world is capable of development of them with our GDP and is just a scare tactic, nuclear weapons are truthfully not as scary as they are made out to be by hollywood or governments etc etc. The number of warheads to destroy a city like NYC which is not truthfully a sprawling metropolis means that none of us except the select few would ever field enough to actually have the 'scare' that nuclear weapons would need to be to stop a military invasion.

When people point out that nations like UK, France, India, etc and the fact they don't have large quantities but share the philosophy of "MAD", its also fact that if UK or France is going nuclear.....the US is as well.

 

[Averin]

Something else, @Averin . I would like to propose an alternative to your story of the conquest of Montelimar. The reason is, that I doubt whether you would have been able to conquer it in a surprise attack. I think that the United Hanseatic States (which still existed during those days I think) and Eiffelland would have helped the Montelimarians against you, and then you would not have been able to conquer Montelimar.

The addition I propose is the following. Like Averin, Montelimar went through a period of instability, leading to a revolution that was hi-jacked by the Party of the Hand, i.e. Averin. In that case, it would not have been Averin who would have been confronted with a hostile population, but Eiffelland and the United Hanseatic States if they would have intervened.

Or am I overlooking something?

Firstly as to your comment about having nukes, your military, air force and navy are already more powerful than several real life nations. Secondly Averinish leadership knows that to mess with international shipping is to invite catastrophe upon itself, also I'm sure the leadership of Scania and middle Europe/gallia Germania understands that they would not pull my grip over that area in a war quickly enough before your economies are irreparably damaged. This in of itself is a case of mutually assured destruction without the need for nukes.

Now to go to your comment about Montelimar. I do find it funny that you are (once again) pulling the: my country would never have allowed that to happen narrative while if there was a current RP going on you wouldn't participate in the war unless you had overwhelming odds AND someone literally directing your forces for you. I understand you don't do war RP and I want to be clear that I will never ever force you into one by directly attacking you to conquer Eiffelland.

Now with that said my Montelimar mention in my factbook is still being developed and it was my intention to actually flesh it out further than what little I have in there. So your idea is something I would incorporate further when I get time to. I would welcome Eiffelland and Hanseatic involvement where you do indeed ultimately lose and retreat out of the current day borders of Continental Averin.

To be clear unless the mapmaker tells me no to my claim I will not accept alterations to my border to include some fantasy of a past Eiffelland that acts unilaterally and without four different allies backing it up like would be required to get you to give a passing involvement to invading a nation during current day RP. I don't believe you would do that for an actively played nation and you didn't even do that for an NPC Justosia that I managed for Jose and the rest of you (having agreed to prearrange a Justosian loss for all of you other than Azilia who was willing to rp the war fully through writing and dice rules interaction.)

 

[Józefania]

For what it's worth, I've chosen to drop the idea of having nuclear weapons, and won't be against the idea of no one in the world having them for the moment. The arguments against their existence presently are fair, and until a scenario is presented that everyone is comfortable with (which would likely be a Great War etc.), there's no point in unilaterally declaring their possession for the time being.

 

[Eiffelland]

OK, but then nobody has nukes.

For me having somebody else RPed my armed forces, I didn't have time at that moment. OK, maybe I put a bit too much effort in my work, but nevertheless. I was in the middle of a periodic analysis and in parallel I was working on a presentation for a congress. I really didn't have the time.

And @Averin , you could have phrased your words in a more gracious manner, to be honest.

 

[Nanuka]

It would seem that the community has decided that in this Scenario Refresh (Branding!) we are electing to not have nuclear weapons. Perhaps no scientist, anywhere, was able to criss cross the data in such a way to make the leap from energy to weaponry. Sad!

I wanted to switch gears for a minute to bringing the conversation back to the state of the world and the players in it. From when I posted this thread to now, I’ve had some time to further nail down the CCCR’s ideology and its goals both domestically and internationally.

From the start, the CCCR’s brand of communism is far from the USSR. It not an authoritarian, centralized state run by a party - in fact, it’s the exact opposite. It is a very decentralized country (not a state!) where power is local. The result of this is that the CCCR is *also* not the United States, but commie. Things that aren’t in its backyard are hardly any of its concern and the debate over the CCCR’s responsibility to build communism internally vs. its responsibility abroad is a constant battle. This, combined with its unique economic structure (moneyless and ambition of autarky) results in the CCCR being a fairly isolationist country. If it’s not going on in its backyard, it is hardly a concern.

However, to “get around” this flaw…is the Global Labor Confederation (GLC). The GLC is an entirely independent organization based in Skokie (it in fact is not an is very much so a wing of the CCCR, shocker!) that actively engages in global revolution. This enables my commies to pop up wherever and however I feel they can / how to best add some spice to RP, but does not directly implicate the CCCR or its military. the GLC will be combined with the [WORKING TITLE] international aid program that will have a similar mission of winning the CCCR’s ideological PR campaign.

So where does that put us? Well, I haven’t completely decided on that but I should imagine that the CCCR is viewed as an oddity on the international stage and, in many cases, a threat. I would imagine that the GLC’s connection to the CCCR’s leadership is a very, very poorly kept secret and this would be a constant source of agitation. In all of this, the CCCR can absolutely and I intend to serve as a global commie boogeyman - spreading freedom everywhere!

 

[Józefania]

I like the idea of the GLC being essentially a perpetual thorn in the side of notCommieEurope, and love that while everybody knows the CCCR are involved they can never prove it adequately enough to do much of anything about it (especially if they're fuddy-duddy rules and decorum obsessed dumdum liberals. Cough. The fascists probably have a slightly different method of dealing with it).

I figure that Józefania will be CONSTANTLY in some kind of covert conflict with the GLC and its Communist Party with its own intelligence services, trying very, very hard to pin them down for legal action etc.