Serbovian commentary

[Serbovia]

Your favorite Finnish spammer is back! How am I doing?

Saw the soft reboot (don't slap me if that's a bad term) going on and decided that it would be a good opportunity to jump in. Been mulling about RP ideas for a lot but didn't really have a good time for it before these last couple of months. The last iteration of Serbovia kind of went sideways due to my IRL issues at the time, the situation has been a lot more stable these last couple of years so hopefully I'll be able to be active again.

I'll readily admit that I have a thing about grimdark and dystopic scenarios and that's usually reflected in my RP one way or another. My most long-lasting RPs have been dictatorships of various types, OG Serbovia back in Classic, Uusimaa (basically the Third Reich with Finns), the 1950s Fennian Union, etc. so I decided to go that way again. I remember dabbling in RPing democracies as secondary nations every now and then, but they never really stuck on. But yeah, dystopia geek.

Social-Nationalism in itself is a syncretic political ideology that, in practice, has seen multiple different versions over the course of my RP History.

Original Social-Nationalist Serbovia was actually deciding to RP an IRC meme and then coming up with what was basically an ultranationalist regime with Tito's economic policies. The pseudo-democratic Serbovia of the last scenario used SN stuff as a background feature, as the inspiration at the time was Russia of the Yeltsin/early Putin era and all the other dysfunctional post-Soviet republics.

This time, I decided to imagine SN Serbovia 70 years post-foundation, with the political background being slightly different and drawing inspiration from the ideological shifts and modernization that we've seen in our IRL Communist regimes such as China and Vietnam.

 

[Bourgardie]

I've enjoyed your return! You coming back is one of the most interesting aspects of our "soft reboot" and helps create a web of complexities! Looking forward to future RP, and curious to see where your characters and national direction go. A lot of your activity has inspired my activity, so I've enjoyed feeding off of the vibes, even if we're not directly engaged in an RP... yet!

 

[Serbovia]

I've enjoyed your return! You coming back is one of the most interesting aspects of our "soft reboot" and helps create a web of complexities! Looking forward to future RP, and curious to see where your characters and national direction go. A lot of your activity has inspired my activity, so I've enjoyed feeding off of the vibes, even if we're not directly engaged in an RP... yet!

Thanks bro! I got some character bios on my to-do-list right after the basic factbooks and threads (that are in a planning phase or as drafts on my PC), plus some easy internal RP I might get on with.

 

[Eiffelland]

Also I am enjoying your return

 

[Serbovia]

Also I am enjoying your return

Thanks man!

 

[Serbovia]

Some stuff came up in @Józefania 's thread about shared background lore, didn't want to clog it with Serbovia stuff or clog my factbook so I guess I'll use this thread for fleshing out those background details of Serbovia that I need to work out with other players.

I'll drop in a couple of items from Discord.

@Elfríki and I were pondering about the Elfrikean-Serbovian alliance of convenience, or co-belligerence, during the Great War against Józefania and when the falling out between Elfriki and Serbovia would have taken place at that time. The impetus for the end of this relation could be the conclusion of the Serbovian Civil War, when the Social-Nationalist victory leads to the institution of collectivist economic policies, confiscation of industries and property of major landowners and major supporters of the old regime (which included most of the industrial magnates, landowners, etc) being executed or sent to re-education camps after kangaroo trials.

Also, for my history and some RP references there are a couple of things where I need input from volunteers on.
- First, there are probably notable Serbovian emigrant communities in some countries originating from the people who fled the Civil War if allowed anywhere, and later on people fleeing from the SocNat regime. Feel free to refer to those in RP!
@Firesea Union I believe was mentioned as a potential host to a sizeable emigrant community, and I figure could be one of the hosts for the SNLC as well.
- Second, needing a host country for the exiled Serbovian royal family, the House of Dimitrovic. I'm considering them mostly irrelevant in Serbovian RP affairs considering that in my history so far the monarchy already got overthrown in the 1930s. But I'd say that the head of the House still claims the title of King of the Serboves.
- Third, a host country for the Serbovian National Liberation Committee , an emigrant opposition group. Though founded by authoritarian rightists of the former regime at the conclusion of the Civil War, it has since drifted to a "big tent" type of strategy unifying liberal and conservative forces. Being anti-socialist, it's also at odds with far-left dissidents hosted by the CCCR.

 

[Serbovia]

Some stuff came up in @Józefania 's thread about shared background lore, didn't want to clog it with Serbovia stuff or clog my factbook so I guess I'll use this thread for fleshing out those background details of Serbovia that I need to work out with other players.

I'll drop in a couple of items from Discord.

@Elfríki and I were pondering about the Elfrikean-Serbovian alliance of convenience, or co-belligerence, during the Great War against Józefania and when the falling out between Elfriki and Serbovia would have taken place at that time. The impetus for the end of this relation could be the conclusion of the Serbovian Civil War, when the Social-Nationalist victory leads to the institution of collectivist economic policies, confiscation of industries and property of major landowners and major supporters of the old regime (which included most of the industrial magnates, landowners, etc) being executed or sent to re-education camps after kangaroo trials.

Also, for my history and some RP references there are a couple of things where I need input from volunteers on.
- First, there are probably notable Serbovian emigrant communities in some countries originating from the people who fled the Civil War if allowed anywhere, and later on people fleeing from the SocNat regime. Feel free to refer to those in RP!
@Firesea Union I believe was mentioned as a potential host to a sizeable emigrant community, and I figure could be one of the hosts for the SNLC as well.
- Second, needing a host country for the exiled Serbovian royal family, the House of Dimitrovic. I'm considering them mostly irrelevant in Serbovian RP affairs considering that in my history so far the monarchy already got overthrown in the 1930s. But I'd say that the head of the House still claims the title of King of the Serboves.
- Third, a host country for the Serbovian National Liberation Committee , an emigrant opposition group. Though founded by authoritarian rightists of the former regime at the conclusion of the Civil War, it has since drifted to a "big tent" type of strategy unifying liberal and conservative forces. Being anti-socialist, it's also at odds with far-left dissidents hosted by the CCCR.

Bump.

Anyone?

 

[Samovia]

I'm volunteering Alsace for hosting many Serbovian emigrants, the former royal fam and the political opposition. Likely worse Alsatian relations with the Socia-National Regime, especially if there's been a royal intermarriage, but who doesn't love extra drama (and a bit of hypocrisy, if one takes a read of the official foreign policy statement in the Alsatian embassy thread)? Besides, the Serbovian opposition is monarchist in nature, so...

 

[Serbovia]

I'm volunteering Alsace for hosting many Serbovian emigrants, the former royal fam and the political opposition. Likely worse Alsatian relations with the Socia-National Regime, especially if there's been a royal intermarriage, but who doesn't love extra drama (and a bit of hypocrisy, if one takes a read of the official foreign policy statement in the Alsatian embassy thread)? Besides, the Serbovian opposition is monarchist in nature, so...

We can roll with that and with the House of Dimitrovic and the SNLC being hosted in Alsace as discussed on Discord.

I'll actually need to do an infodump on the royal family and all these opposition groups. *adds to to-do list*

 

[Serbovia]

A little tidbit on the Serbovian Civil War and the National Restoration.

The Serbovian Civil War took place in 1953-1956, subsequent to the Great War, as the result of a Social-Nationalist uprising against the August Junta. The factions of the Civil War included the Social-Nationalists, warlord factions originating from the former junta (I think the Provisional Serbovian Government is the only one I mentioned so far, but they would sometimes ally and sometimes be opposed to each other as well, and the internal division of the junta forces is one of the contributing factors to the SocNat win), Solidarists (probably backed by Józefanian Mazovists and maybe the CCCR, but sidelined as I'm assuming that the SocNat agenda of nationalizing major industries and the properties of landowners would've appealed to the most of the potentially left-supporting working and peasant classes) and ethnic separatists.

The National Restoration War is the Social-Nationalist propaganda term for the Civil War. As there is some diplomacy related to the subject ongoing in regards to my 70th anniversary events (Victory Day, but in Welthaupstadt Germania!) I thought I'd clarify on the terminology. If you want to be politically neutral about it, the Civil War is probably the term to use, as I suppose the National Restoration War as a term implies acceptance of the SocNat narrative on the war.

The National Restoration as a political term refers to the takeover of the Social-Nationalist People's Party, and the moulding of Serbovian society according to SocNat political doctrine that took place in the aftermath of the Civil War. The Social-Nationalists would have considered both the pre-1937 monarchy (with its royal marriages and kings, princes and princesses who at some point would have turned out to be more Gallogermanian than Serbovian) and the August Junta (with its elitist background in the aristocracy, military leadership and industrial tycoons) as being influenced by foreign forces, and the National Restoration refers to a narrative where the SocNats are restoring Serbovian status as an unified, sovereign nation state, restoring national unity by eliminating class interests in favor of a single national interest, synchronization of different aspects of society to conform to SocNat ideology, and enacting reconstruction of the country after the Civil War.

This is also the reason why the Great War isn't emphasized in propaganda. According to the SocNats, the Great War was a futile, destructive venture, resulting in immense suffering for the common Serbovian who fought, in the name of the military leaders and factory barons that prompted Serbovia to enter the war. While the veterans of that war are memorized and honored, they are seen more as victims of Serbovia's leadership at that time, while the Civil War Social-Nationalists are subject to almost cult-like worship.

Thus, calling it just the Civil War can be a political statement, but it's probably also the internationally accepted term! If you want to cozy up to the Supreme Leader&friends, calling it the National Restoration War wins extra points!

 

[Serbovia]

So, since the House of Dimitrovic is starting to make some appearances in RP, time for some lore. Some of this is infodump-y, but I want to keep my actual factbook thread concise and without discussion posts, so I'll post it here.

Background of the House of Dimitrovic

The House of Dimitrovic became the Serbovian royal house during the 1780s, when the last ruler of the preceding Mladenovic dynasty died without a direct heir. Building their claim on the throne through patrilineal descent through a Mladenovic cadet branch, the Dimitrovic claimant managed to insert him as a legitimate King, his back claimed as much by the realpolitik between leading Serbovian nobility as much at it was backed by legitimate interpretation of Serbovian inheritance customs.

The rule of the House of Dimitrovic lasts from 1780 to 1939, obviously a period of great significance for the country with the industrialization of the nation and the emergence of new political currents. A recurring trait during the latter part of the 1800s would be the Dimitrovic dynasty being Gallogermanophiles (in the absence of a better word), and successive Dimitrovic monarchs introducing foreign (Bourgardien, Eiffellandian, Montelimaren, etc) cultural features into their court and among the elite, which eventually contributes to an ideological climate where, eventually, right-wing nationalists are heavily opposed to the monarchy.

Stepan XIX, the last Serbovian monarch, is removed from power in 1939 in a military coup backed by politically influential members of the aristocracy as well as leading industrialists. The impetus of the coup and the establishment of the junta would be the growing workers' movement, with the demands for greater workers' rights manifesting in increased support for the Solidarist (leftist) movement. The junta then proceeds to ban all political activity in the country. I've envisioned the Social-Nationalist movement starting to form during this period, bringing an ultranationalist narrative to the play by proclaiming themselves to be a force acting against what they termed the exploitation of Serbovia by foreigners and internationally-connected elites.

Allowed to flee the country, Stepan and the rest of the House of Dimitrovic take whatever property is possible to take with them and flee abroad, perhaps first to @Bourgardie if Coro is down with it. Józefania at this point is undergoing its own civil war as per Jose's own infodump, so it doesn't seem to be a good kind of a destination. Eventually they find their way to the neutral @Alsace perhaps during the Great War, seeing it as a safer location as opposed to Bourgardie which at this point is on the opposing side of the conflict with Serbovia.

During the Great War, the banned Social-Nationalist People's Party expands as an underground organization and grows in popularity to such a degree that they are able to start an uprising soon after the conclusion of the Great War, leading to the Serbovian Civil War. The brother of Stepan XIX aligns himself with an anti-SocNat faction and

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The present

Vojislav VII Dimitrovic, (1960-), the grandson of King Stepan XIX (1900-1984) and the son of Svetoslav III (1933-2016), heads the exiled House of Dimitrovic from Alsace and continues to claim the title of the King of the Serboves. We could add in a foreign spouse for Vojislav if there's a suitable foreign candidate. Children include Princes Dorde (1987-) and Aleksej (1989-).

Princess Svetlana, (1934-), the daughter of the older Vojislav (executed in 1956) is still alive, having surprised observers with her longevity. I'm thinking that there could be a foreign husband for her, so if there are volunteers please give me a heads up. Her brother Prince Stepan (1925-1956), was executed during the final stages of the Serbovian Civil War alongside their father. Princess Milana (1928-2012) died of natural causes.

There are, obviously, other members of the family in existence, including the descendants of Prince Stepan, but the ones above are so far the ones to have featured in my RP in some form.

The House of Dimitrovic is largely regarded as a historical curiosity, having been an exiled royal house for nearly a hundred years. The house seat is in @Alsace - which is also the residence of Vojislav VII - where members of the family, along with a small group of supporters, still maintain a Government in Exile of the Kingdom of Serbovia. Having integrated themselves into foreign aristocracies and educated in foreign universities, the remaining Dimitrovices have relatively little connections with modern-day Serbovia, even though the NKDB still continues to keep tabs on their activities.

In the right-wing Serbovian National Liberation Committee, there is a monarchist faction which continues to maintain an informal affiliation with the House of Dimitrovic, though that relationship is kept informal to avoid creating discord with the larger republican faction of the Serbovian opposition movement.

The Dimitrovics are likely to hold either foreign citizenship (probably Alsacen?) or be regarded as stateless persons. A decree issued by Supreme Leader Aleksandar Plesic shortly after the end of the Serbovian Civil War strips all members of the House of Dimitrovic and their descendants of the right to Serbovian citizenship.

 

[Eiffelland]

With 19 ruling Royal Houses and a bunch of families that were ennobled to the level of Fürst and Duke, it should be possible to deliver some spouses.

For Vojislav VII, the current head of House Dimitrovic:
— Haus Heidemar-Loorburg. Its head is King of Lotharingen. He has a sister, who was born on 9 July 1962. Her name is Wilhelmine. This family is Lutheran, but it can be that Wilhelmine converted before her marriage.
— Haus Madau-Gramais. Its head is Fürst of Wörgl. It can be that he has a sister who was born in 1961 or 1962. This family is Tiburan Catholic.
— Haus Steinfurt-Rüdershausen. Its head is Duke of Thorsringen. He can have a sister who was born between 1960 and 1962. This family is Lutheran.
— Haus Stolzenau. Is head is Fürst of Stolzenau. He can have a sister who was born between 1960 and 1962. This family is Tiburan Catholic.
— Haus Koblenz-Lahnstein. Its head is Grand-Duke of Ruppertswald. He can have an older sister who was born between 1960 and 1962. The reason why that sister is not on the throne is, that the inheritance in this family is semi-salic. This family is Tiburan-Catholic and very conservative.

Then for Svetlana. A husband for her, born between 1930 and 1934, could come from the houses Madau-Gramais, Steinfurt-Rüdershausen, Stolzenau or
Koblenz-Lahnstein.

 

[Serbovia]

With 19 ruling Royal Houses and a bunch of families that were ennobled to the level of Fürst and Duke, it should be possible to deliver some spouses.

For Vojislav VII, the current head of House Dimitrovic:
— Haus Heidemar-Loorburg. Its head is King of Lotharingen. He has a sister, who was born on 9 July 1962. Her name is Wilhelmine. This family is Lutheran, but it can be that Wilhelmine converted before her marriage.
— Haus Madau-Gramais. Its head is Fürst of Wörgl. It can be that he has a sister who was born in 1961 or 1962. This family is Tiburan Catholic.
— Haus Steinfurt-Rüdershausen. Its head is Duke of Thorsringen. He can have a sister who was born between 1960 and 1962. This family is Lutheran.
— Haus Stolzenau. Is head is Fürst of Stolzenau. He can have a sister who was born between 1960 and 1962. This family is Tiburan Catholic.
— Haus Koblenz-Lahnstein. Its head is Grand-Duke of Ruppertswald. He can have an older sister who was born between 1960 and 1962. The reason why that sister is not on the throne is, that the inheritance in this family is semi-salic. This family is Tiburan-Catholic and very conservative.

Then for Svetlana. A husband for her, born between 1930 and 1934, could come from the houses Madau-Gramais, Steinfurt-Rüdershausen, Stolzenau or
Koblenz-Lahnstein.

Yo!

Sorry for taking my time to reply, I suppose for Svetlana we could do with a wife from Koblenz-Lahnstein. Serbovians are Tiburan Catholic by majority (a significant difference from RL Serbs owing to my geographic placement). Also given the conservative tendencies particularly during the era I feel that it would have fit the vibe of the House of Dimitrovic. Basically, the 1950s 1960s Dimitrovices are still heavily subscribing to the autocratic form of governance, as evidenced by Stepan XIX's brother (also named Vojislav) becoming a general in a right-authoritarian, anti-SN faction during the Civil War.

For Vojislav VII, either Madau-Gramais, Stolzenau or Koblenz-Lahnstein. I imagine Catholicism being a heavy part of Serbovian national identity, as a result the exiled House of Dimitrovic is trying to avoid marrying with other Christian denominations to maintain some form of credibility in Serbovia.

 

[Serbovia]

Yo!

Sorry for taking my time to reply, I suppose for Svetlana we could do with a wife from Koblenz-Lahnstein. Serbovians are Tiburan Catholic by majority (a significant difference from RL Serbs owing to my geographic placement). Also given the conservative tendencies particularly during the era I feel that it would have fit the vibe of the House of Dimitrovic. Basically, the 1950s 1960s Dimitrovices are still heavily subscribing to the autocratic form of governance, as evidenced by Stepan XIX's brother (also named Vojislav) becoming a general in a right-authoritarian, anti-SN faction during the Civil War.

For Vojislav VII, either Madau-Gramais, Stolzenau or Koblenz-Lahnstein. I imagine Catholicism being a heavy part of Serbovian national identity, as a result the exiled House of Dimitrovic is trying to avoid marrying with other Christian denominations to maintain some form of credibility in Serbovia.

@Eiffelland This okay to you, and would you have the time to throw some names for the characters?

 

[Eiffelland]

I need to make an excel sheet randomizing women's names for royals.

I suppose for Svetlana we could do with a wife from Koblenz-Lahnstein.

I think you mean a husband, or not? Given that both houses are very conservative, they won't condone a lesbian relationship, I suppose
Is it an option that Svetlana was married to the Grand-Duke himself? Then she would currently live in Eiffelland. If that is an option, I have Grand-Duke Ruppert LVIII, born in 1930. That would mean that Svetlana would be the mother of the current Grand-Duke of Ruppertswald.

Then for Vojislav VII, given that there was already a marriage between the houses Koblenz-Lahnstein and Dimitrovic, it would be better to have somebody from another house. We don't want to see any Habsburg chins, do we? What about Elisabeth von Stolzenau, born in 1960?

 

[Serbovia]

I need to make an excel sheet randomizing women's names for royals.



I think you mean a husband, or not? Given that both houses are very conservative, they won't condone a lesbian relationship, I suppose
Is it an option that Svetlana was married to the Grand-Duke himself? Then she would currently live in Eiffelland. If that is an option, I have Grand-Duke Ruppert LVIII, born in 1930. That would mean that Svetlana would be the mother of the current Grand-Duke of Ruppertswald.

Oh yeah, sorry for the tired eyes error Husband indeed. Let's do that.

Then for Vojislav VII, given that there was already a marriage between the houses Koblenz-Lahnstein and Dimitrovic, it would be better to have somebody from another house. We don't want to see any Habsburg chins, do we? What about Elisabeth von Stolzenau, born in 1960?

Sounds good to me!

 

[Serbovia]

Seeing that Alsace/Samovia quit, I am going to need new hosting locations for the House of Dimitrovic (exiled royal family) as well as the Serbovian National Liberation Committee opposition group.

@Bourgardie @Eiffelland @Firesea Union for example, any takers?

 

[Eiffelland]

House Dimitrovic can be living through its exile in Eiffelland. Initially, given their family ties to House Koblenz-Lahnstein and House Stolzenau, they could live in the City of Ruppertswald (in a relatively prosperous Grand-Duchy), or Michelsdof (the capital of Stolzenau, in the Alps (the mountains in the South); you could add some dark mysterious obscurity to their storyline here, because the Sovereign of Stolzenau is a bit dark and mysterious himself).

You can also decide to let them live among the elites in the superchic city of Grefrath (banking, heavy industry and one of the two stock exchanges in Eiffelland; there are quite a lot of nouveau-riches there who are very proud of the fact that their ancestors earned a lot of money), or in the mundane spa city of Bad Hersfeld (with its casinos, parties and holiday resorts; think of Nice), or in Fehrbellin (city of parties and of modern art; also banking, electronics industry, ICT, high-tech and one of the two stock exchanges in Eiffelland).