The Great War

[Averin]

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The Great War
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The Why:

As we established in other threads, the war kicked off after an uneasy peace after many centuries of war shattered by the revelations that several nations were developing the ultimate weapon.

The When:

We determined that the war would be around 1950 ish.

The Who:

So far I believe that the nations that took part in the great war were: Averin (pre-Directorate) , Onedia/CCCR, Elfriki, Eiffelland, Jozefania, Yuan Guo, Warre, Bougardie, The Konderland(?), and I can't remember who else. Clearly there is no limit as to who is involved.

I started this thread because this is really the last thread of our pre-current day RP history that still really needs to be put together. While other regional things are still being worked on, this is the founding myth of current day RP. WE need to determine who was allied to who and who was fighting who in a way that makes some sort of sense.

The Outcome:

We know that after the war, all the warring nations came together and worked very hard to create a treaty, perhaps a TREATY ORGANIZATION to dismantle and eliminate all nuclear weapons and to enforce the current day ban on weapons. What does this look like? My Proposal is not a UN but it is sort of a UN, but only for nukes. A permanent council that has the ability, by treaty law, to make sure that no nation is attempting to revive nuclear weapons or weapons research. Every nation, regardless of ideology has a stake in this council and in the continued enforcement of the ban on nuclear weapons. There could be a rotating inspection schedule for nations chosen at random to come and inspect nuclear energy facilities and weapons research laps to make sure that nukes aren't being built. the consequences of this being that should nukes be found or evidence of a weapons program, that all signatory nations would make war on the one that broke treaty law.

Anyways. that's my haphazard idea. Let's get this figured out.

 

[Serbovia]

In

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it was established that by the very least side A involves Eiffelland and Józefania and side B apparently at least Elfriki and Serbovia.

But yeah, the broader who fought who still needs to be figured out.

 

[Nanuka]

So the Syndicalists took charge in 1937 and the original set up was even more disjointed than it is now. This allowed for the nationalists to have space to lick their wounds and ultimately try to overthrow the Syndicalists in the 50s - which is the CCCR’s role in the Great War. That civil war continued for X amount of years, ultimately culminating in a nuke being set off in Skokie, i.e. the Destruction of Skokie. This event was so horrific that the public turned against the nationalists and the Syndicalists decided they needed to rework their shit.

Camaro and I had worked out that Auraria (Not-Florida) had still been an Azilian colony by the 1950s, albeit it mostly on paper as Oneida was far more influential especially after GLC work. Azilian leftists had been seeing the writing on the wall for a while and fled to Auraria once the Caudillo came to power. Then, Auraria declared independence and joined the CCCR. Today, the CCR holds the Azilian Republican government in exile, mostly as a constant snub to the Caudillo.

It seems silly to have a “war of conquest” in the middle of the civil war, but I like the idea of the CCCR being *that* disjointed that some facets of the country decide to annex/liberate/join Auraria instead of fighting the fascists.

I am, of course, open to any and all ideas of how the CCCR can get involved in conflicts. Given the civil war, though, understand that the CCCR is very weak at this point.

 

[Bourgardie]

I like the idea of going to war against Montelimar in the Great War and that creating a side theatre like the RL Winter War. I could see this leading to being drawn into the larger conflict somehow though. I think that could also lead to reasoning why Bourgardie does not feel compelled to aid Montelimar when invaded by Averin.

Otherwise, it makes sense that somehow this puts me into the camp with Josepania and Eiffelland considering modern alignment.

 

[Firesea Union]

Before I answer any of my plans when it comes to the Great War. @CCCR Jurzy we are still having the collapse of Oneida in the 1930s to 1950s right?

 

[Nanuka]

Before I answer any of my plans when it comes to the Great War. @CCCR Jurzy we are still having the collapse of Oneida in the 1930s to 1950s right?

The rough timeline I'm working with is:

1870s-ish: Republic of Oneida gains independence from Averin
1870s-1910s: The Good Years, Gilded Age
1910s-1920s: Things fracture, leftist ideology grows
1937: The Republic of Oneida formally collapses and the CCL declares the CCCR
1930s-1950s: CCL struggles to maintain control, nationalist factions still permeate
195X-1957: Second Oneidan Civil War, nationalists defeated, Skokie nuked, CCL establishes full control + reforms to the CCCR

 

[Firesea Union]

The rough timeline I'm working with is:

1870s-ish: Republic of Oneida gains independence from Averin
1870s-1910s: The Good Years, Gilded Age
1910s-1920s: Things fracture, leftist ideology grows
1937: The Republic of Oneida formally collapses and the CCL declares the CCCR
1930s-1950s: CCL struggles to maintain control, nationalist factions still permeate
195X-1957: Second Oneidan Civil War, nationalists defeated, Skokie nuked, CCL establishes full control + reforms to the CCCR

We will say then that by 1937 the Firesea Union's component states seceded from the collapsed Oneida, before reforming by 1939 fully as the Firesea Union, avoiding using Oneida as a method to stop the mostly peaceful dissolution from turning into a full civil war part 2.
By the 1969, most immigration from the CCCR into the Firesea Union by "former Oneidan citizens and their families" largely stopped.
This lets the Firesea Union have enough time to really get on its feet as a nation before the great war breaks out.

For Warre, I imagine some paranoia was built up from Averin and things before the war, bur the collapse of Oneida (or the east) also made it initially take a militant neutral stance initially, while buying weapons from the Firesea Union, Josepania and Elfriki where it could.

 

[Serbovia]

To further elaborate on what happened with Serbovia in the Great War, the main thing established was that it was on the opposite side of Józefania.

At the time, Serbovia is ruled by a military junta and its get into the war when they see Józefania engaged in other fronts as well, looking to take advantage of the opportunity to settle centuries-old border disputes and to use the war to boost the (then-lacking) popular support of the regime.

On that front, neither side manages to make significant advancements. Instead, there are repeated battles where territory is won and lost and major aerial bombardments of both Józefanian and Serbovian cities. The lack of any tangible wins, coupled with the horrendous human and monetary cost of the war, eventually lead to widespread discontent which in turn leads to the rise of the Social-Nationalist movement and the Serbovian Civil War.

 

[Elfríki]

To further elaborate on what happened with Serbovia in the Great War, the main thing established was that it was on the opposite side of Józefania.

At the time, Serbovia is ruled by a military junta and its get into the war when they see Józefania engaged in other fronts as well, looking to take advantage of the opportunity to settle centuries-old border disputes and to use the war to boost the (then-lacking) popular support of the regime.

On that front, neither side manages to make significant advancements. Instead, there are repeated battles where territory is won and lost and major aerial bombardments of both Józefanian and Serbovian cities. The lack of any tangible wins, coupled with the horrendous human and monetary cost of the war, eventually lead to widespread discontent which in turn leads to the rise of the Social-Nationalist movement and the Serbovian Civil War.

I imagine Elfriki would've worked with Serbovia as a co-belligerent. Be handy having someone on the opposite side of Jozefania, after all.

 

[Serbovia]

Also, might be jumping ahead of things here but thought to bring this up considering that we are establishing a post-war international agreement as the basis of the restrictions on nuclear weapons.

This begs the question if we have other forms of arms restrictions and agreements on the rules of war in place that also could have possibly stemmed from the Great War. To provide an example, I'm talking about the rough equivalents of the Geneva Conventions (status of civilians, POWs, internees, wounded etc at wartime),

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, the conventions restricting chemical and biological weapons, etc,

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, etc.

On one hand, agreements such as those would seem logical at least by the end of the Great War. On the other hand, in the absence of supranational organizations one wonders what would have been the proverbial "glue" in maintaining the agreements and ensuring that signatories include a meaningful majority of nations.

I imagine Elfriki would've worked with Serbovia as a co-belligerent. Be handy having someone on the opposite side of Jozefania, after all.

Yeah, we could work with that.

 

[Averin]

In

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it was established that by the very least side A involves Eiffelland and Józefania and side B apparently at least Elfriki and Serbovia.

But yeah, the broader who fought who still needs to be figured out.

With this in mind, i propose that the sides look like this so far. Eiffelland/Jozefania/Bourgardie vs Elfriki/Serbovia/Montelimar

Averin could be on the side of Eiffelland and company as they see an opportunity to capture Mjodland off of Elfriki and rebuild their empire. Essentially this war would be the last gasp of the Averinish empire before it falls apart nearly thirty years later with the rise of the Directorate.

While this going on the Nationalists are figthing the CCL in @CCCR with Averin providing the Nationalists material and naval support when able with the promise that Averin would regain communist held areas as part of it's ailing empire. In the end as the nationalists are losing, Averin supplied them with a nuclear weapon and the Nationalists destroy Skokie.

Azilia stays neutral and for others I am not sure how to slot them in. Somewhere near the end, everyone nukes each other a bit.

This leaves us with nukes getting banned and HOW that is enforced into the modern age.

 

[Elfríki]

With this in mind, i propose that the sides look like this so far. Eiffelland/Jozefania/Bourgardie vs Elfriki/Serbovia/Montelimar

Averin could be on the side of Eiffelland and company as they see an opportunity to capture Mjodland off of Elfriki and rebuild their empire. Essentially this war would be the last gasp of the Averinish empire before it falls apart nearly thirty years later with the rise of the Directorate.

While this going on the Nationalists are figthing the CCL in @CCCR with Averin providing the Nationalists material and naval support when able with the promise that Averin would regain communist held areas as part of it's ailing empire. In the end as the nationalists are losing, Averin supplied them with a nuclear weapon and the Nationalists destroy Skokie.

Azilia stays neutral and for others I am not sure how to slot them in. Somewhere near the end, everyone nukes each other a bit.

This leaves us with nukes getting banned and HOW that is enforced into the modern age.

I guess the question on the matter of blocs is that Jozefania offered to nuke Eiffelland to tie up the nuclear question in Eurodisney... so idk maybe the nuking can be edited if we're sticking to this bloc. Either that or the Mazovists went "screw it" and just nuked people on both sides for some reason?

I do love that Averinish assault on Mjòðland idea, though. It gives them something to do other than stare across the border at the insanity going on in Oneida. The hilarious part is that Mjòðland was also probably sending money/mercs to help the Oneidan nationalists.

Because communism right next door = bad.

 

[Talashan]

Would there have been any secondary or tertiary theatres in Media/Himyar? I'd be happy to provide colonial forces to Averin, as a subordinate or co-belligerent with their Empire, to unsuccessfully try to wrest control of some colonies/secure resource hubs in the Global South.

Alternatively our Shah at the time might be an ardent Germanophile, siding with Eiffelland and Bougardie against the Averinish before being deposed/persuaded to fight the other way. Might be a bit too similar to IRL WW2, though. Happy to play it either way.

 

[Vysorvina]

If there's a Touyou theatre, I wouldn't be opposed to being involved. Vysorvina would have been a minor power, but likely an annoying thorn for either Elfriki or Konderland as a persistent but unconquerably vast nuisance. At the time, the Khaganate may have been looking to seize some potentially restive Slavic-majority borderlands.

 

[Serbovia]

If there's a Touyou theatre, I wouldn't be opposed to being involved. Vysorvina would have been a minor power, but likely an annoying thorn for either Elfriki or Konderland as a persistent but unconquerably vast nuisance. At the time, the Khaganate may have been looking to seize some potentially restive Slavic-majority borderlands.

Could have been something akin to the WW1 engagements between the Brits and the Germans. I don't believe that the actual Touyou powers were involved, but I could see some colony-hopping and commerce raiding taking place. But I'll leave that up to the colonial powers as Serbovia never was one.

 

[Józefania]

I guess the question on the matter of blocs is that Jozefania offered to nuke Eiffelland to tie up the nuclear question in Eurodisney... so idk maybe the nuking can be edited if we're sticking to this bloc. Either that or the Mazovists went "screw it" and just nuked people on both sides for some reason?

I do love that Averinish assault on Mjòðland idea, though. It gives them something to do other than stare across the border at the insanity going on in Oneida. The hilarious part is that Mjòðland was also probably sending money/mercs to help the Oneidan nationalists.

Because communism right next door = bad.

Pondering on this, it might be beneficial for all involved to consider Józefania essentially as a quasi-third bloc, maybe suuuuuuuper loosely connected with @CCCR that is going through its own civil war at the time, lumped into the Great War simply because its conflicts with neighbors like Serbovia, the Elfriki Federation, and Eiffelland were simultaneously fought alongside other conflicts between the alliance blocs of Averin/Bourgardie/Eiffelland vs Elfriki/Serbovia/Montellimar, but not started because of alliance obligations; rather because of ideological differences and opportunism on both sides.

This would allow the

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, which I must emphasize is still open to edits and changes big and small to best fit the scenario, to potentially not conflict with any other nations' own timelines around the Great War. It does, however, throw a bit of a snag into who uses nuclear weapons on whom, and it doesn't answer how and why a nuclear ban is enforced in-universe, and I don't yet have an adequate suggestion in that regard.

 

[Samovia]

NANANA

 

[Eiffelland]

I have read all of the above. I will agree with the outcome of the discussion.

 

[Elfríki]

So as was suggested on the server, COURTS is now up for discussion as the international body that bans nukes and opposes nuclear proliferation:

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Here's a quick draft on maybe a simple addition that can solidify that. (Membeship to be moved to Article V)

Article IV: The Mandate of Non-Proliferation​

Forged in the aftermath of the devastating atomic exchanges of the Great War, COURTS serves as the primary international authority enforcing the global prohibition on the development, testing, and stockpiling of nuclear armaments.

1. The Ban on Nuclear Weapons: Member states, Associates, and Observers strictly commit to utilizing radiological materials exclusively for civilian energy, medical application, and conventional defense (e.g., naval propulsion, DU shielding). The creation of explosive atomic weaponry is an offense against humanity.
2. The Mandate of Inspection: To guarantee this peace, the Council shall maintain a Directorate of Safeguards, empowered to conduct rigorous, unannounced inspections of all refinement facilities and reactor sites operating within the COURTS network.
3. On the Definition of Rogue States: Any nation found operating clandestine enrichment programs outside of COURTS oversight, or attempting to weaponize radiological material, shall be subject to immediate and absolute embargo of all COURTS technology, fuel, and logistics services.

Of course, given how messy the war was, there's probably a lot of stuff going on here with regards to its founding and history. Alright, so, that's another thread we're adding on to the war! Or rather, its repercussions.

 

[Józefania]

I had some thoughts about this with @Elfríki that I wanted to elaborate on here.

If we were to have this become an organization immediately post-Great War, there would inevitably be some UN shenanigans depending on who had bombs. Right now I think we've determined that the Elfriki Federation and Józefania had bombs alongside @Eiffelland. Perhaps also the Empire of @Averin and Montelimar because they have deposits, so @Bourgardie could chime in here. And of course the @CCCR. Other folk who conceivably could have had nukes should note potential proliferation here.

Otherwise I don't wish speak for any other nuclear powers, but having Józefania involved from the outside is probably one that starts tough because of war reasons, given the whole Mezhists and then Mazovists era, but the restored monarchy could perhaps weasel its way in French Talleyrand post-Napoleonic Wars-style, which could provide some initial controversy.

There's also the CCCR if they want to sign a no nukes treaty, which would also provide for some fun historical controversy.

What was also mused upon by Zalo was if this whole organization started out as a regulatory body, and it was slowly hijacked it over the decades to become an OPEC cartel. So in the modern day it's technically still an anti-nuke body, but it has extra cartel functions added over time. Right now, it's definitely more of a cartel with a veneer of regulation.

These are all SUPER draft thoughts that need way more elaboration, but I want others to have their own musings, and feel free to push back on any of this and offer different proposals.