I don't see any issue with the map looking like RL. It helps to create preconceptions about geography and weather systems in areas that people aren't occupying; we all look at Solaren and go "that's Italian" so the parties invading it can all reach an easy consensus as to what the terrain looks like without any argument. People can look at the Germanic regions and go "cold winters, lush forests, some mountains but mostly flat" and they'd probably not be far off when describing Franken. They look at Agderike, think "Scandanavia" and have a good idea what the terrain is like, because the guy that put his country there had the same idea. It also helps people look at a map, think "I want a German country" and they know exactly where it should go. If we did it otherwise, you might get Englands in Himyar or something saying that there's coniferous redwood forests in what everyone else thinks should be the desert and that the winters are extremely cold and the summers very mild.
The Old Map Critique & Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Jydsken-Østveg
- Start date
Hanseatic Republics
Establishing Nation
Yet Agderike/Østveg doesn't look like Norway. We have far too many places where you say. Oh hey, that's Greece... Or Delaware... Or Newfoundland... I can keep going.
Other than the Greece bit it's not that bad. I know Xen demands a Japanese analogue geographically, though I suppose it makes sense - some people come to roleplay because they have a specific government in mind they want to roleplay. Others have a specific ethnicity they want to explore. Some just like the scenery of a particular country they've visited; if people wan't an Aegean archipelago style feel, or Peloponnese peninsula feel, there are no good options for that kind of territory.
I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I looked at the Greek plot when I came back from hiatus and thought "I'd love to have a water-loving pagan nation there that lives in floating villages and whose primary method of transportation are rickety motor boats" and less a thought as much about something like "Greeks".
I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I looked at the Greek plot when I came back from hiatus and thought "I'd love to have a water-loving pagan nation there that lives in floating villages and whose primary method of transportation are rickety motor boats" and less a thought as much about something like "Greeks".
Hanseatic Republics
Establishing Nation
...I disagree. But aesthetics aren't really an argument able to be won.
On a separate note... what happened to the naming convention polls?
On a separate note... what happened to the naming convention polls?
It's another thing I've given up on until we fully transition over to the new domain.
Frankly I think this whole geography thing is a storm in a tea-kettle. I can understand wanting to change things that have too much earth versimilitude, but given that we encourage a degree of earth-like similarity, it seems to be an unnecessary quibbling. West March, I think sweeping changes in the 3 most active places would be way too disruptive. Remove the inactive greece place if you like, and there's a few other inactive nations that I feel could be safely greened or sunk into the sea, but altering active areas should not be done without explicit consent from everyone active in those areas.
Ivernia
Establishing Nation
- Joined
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- Meath, Ireland
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- Royal City Caladbolg
- Nick
- Pádraig
When you were gone we all agreed by consensus to shrink Eurodisney. Just to give an example, at it's old size Ivernia was as large as Turkey. All of us in Eurodisney has these massive nations, but we all acted like they were small. So we changed the map to suit our RP.
I'd prefer not being shrunk and given those two plots as a consolation prize, but I'm capable of working with these things. I feel it's a completely unnecessary change, though - there's a higher demand for Central Asian states than there are South East Asian states - the three plots to my southwest are unlikely to be occupied in the next year I imagine. As much as I'd like them to be.
Hanseatic Republics
Establishing Nation
Well, I never gave consent. But it was done anyway because Xen wanted a world closer to the real world, with a small Europe, and his Japan and China... and Korea. Honestly, there is no point in having any of these debates unless you talk to Xen and get him to agree to stop this RL world mimicking madness.
Shrinking Eurodisney I'd argue was the dumbest idea. This is the most popular location to RP. We ought to embrace it, not try to make it as irrelevant as possible. Because clearly shrinking it doesn't produce more nations elsewhere, it only makes it difficult to read shit on the map and create a giant Asia with nobody to fill it. Hell, the fact I can say Asia, and everyone understands is a problem. Ethnic clustering is an okay idea. But the fact we have a map that is a carbon copy of Earth is stupid and we really ought to just play on a real world map at this rate because it pretty much is the same exact thing. At least national geographic has a lot of detail and there are plenty of free maps to work with all over the internet.
I see no reason to sink as you've suggested Southeast Asia. Additionally I feel it is unfair your area was circled and Xen's Japan wasn't. Regardless, there are great solutions to southeast asia, and I'd post one myself... but as it is, I don't have the RP time until April to get started on anything. Our map has really gone to shit since we allowed moderation and admins the ability to chime in and shape the globe as they'd prefer to see it.
Artistic freedom really ought to be given to the mapmaker to create our own unique world. I'd suggest it be done all at once, and we forever agree to NEVER change it ever again. We've changed the map constantly over the last 3 years and every change gets it closer to real world Earth. This needs to stop.
First of all, everything is under control - there has been a method to the "madness", "dumbest idea", "irrelevant", "shit", "problem", and "stupid" map that we have. Despite your post and Kyiv's I do not see us in any sort of quandary or catastrophe, though I agree that there is a case for careful alteration to the ongoing world that does not undermine existing players.
Re-shaping Occidentia and Touyou, terms you clearly disagree with, was probably a case of hubris of good intentions. We threw Yujin and potentially other eastern nations the ball to run with by artificially enlarging their area, and as usual they were incapable of completing the task. These things cannot be influenced by changes to the map, we saw a smaller Gallic and Norsk region remain as naturally relevant when it became smaller, so perception of activity may have more to do with individual player's willpower to post than pixels, but that isn't a known, it's my subjective opinion on the matter.
There's a case for sparking interest with suggestive continental and nation plot features with analogues to the real world, as you look at your own Scandinavian nations in the North, Sylvania's republican new world, or Yujin's feuding orient. The good or bad feeling some of us get when we see something on our map that looks similar to the real world is also subjective, it isn't always shared by the community, let alone the staff, at large. Xen has been occupying a close copy to Japan for over a decade while Kyiv is going in to paint and circling a plot that looks equally like Greece. There simply is not a consensus for how a continent or country should look in our world, for better or worse.
As you've said indirectly it's been about 3 years since you were mapmaker, and believe it or not there have been significant changes to staff/mapmaker relations that kept Nonsuch around for much longer than he probably should have been based on that positive relationship. Also: changing everything once and never doing anything else again is kind of wild, man.
Socialist Commonwealth
Establishing Nation
I disagree with Coro's "end of the occident" opinion. The map is fine, a slight similiarity to RL is no problem, we just should keep it within limits.
I third what Cantignia and Carentania have said.
I agree. Slight similarities are OK so long as we didn't just copy and paste the entire European continent or anything. If someone looks at the map, they can tell after some time that some of the continents are based off of Europe, Asia, Australia, North and South America, etc. It's not immediately obvious upon first viewing, however.
Hanseatic Republics
Establishing Nation
I feel people got the wrong message from my post. Other than "to disagree" and not believe we are a carbon copy yet, the point of my post I think is the "yet" part.
Since the time that Q first designed this map, every mapmaker, myself included (I'm not free from guilt), has altered the map in some manner. Often these alterations were to try to make a region more popular (a fruitless effort), or to adhere to the demands of the administration/moderation on real world mimicking (what I deemed madness). My point is that we need to stop outright these content changes and start playing on a more permanent "board" if you were to think of this as a board game. In NSEclassic we never so drastically changed the map as we have in the last 3 or so years. So I feel we need to make the last necessary changes and put an end to changes to the map. How these changes are made are up to the moderation, but I feel that the areas that Kyiv have circled are the biggest trouble spots and with perhaps the exception of Eurodisney (as altering that is messy and difficult), we ought to fix these areas and agree to not screw with the map anymore in any manner larger than the occasional new island here and there.... like how things used to be.
Since the time that Q first designed this map, every mapmaker, myself included (I'm not free from guilt), has altered the map in some manner. Often these alterations were to try to make a region more popular (a fruitless effort), or to adhere to the demands of the administration/moderation on real world mimicking (what I deemed madness). My point is that we need to stop outright these content changes and start playing on a more permanent "board" if you were to think of this as a board game. In NSEclassic we never so drastically changed the map as we have in the last 3 or so years. So I feel we need to make the last necessary changes and put an end to changes to the map. How these changes are made are up to the moderation, but I feel that the areas that Kyiv have circled are the biggest trouble spots and with perhaps the exception of Eurodisney (as altering that is messy and difficult), we ought to fix these areas and agree to not screw with the map anymore in any manner larger than the occasional new island here and there.... like how things used to be.
The Federation
Established Nation
I wont agree to any changes that alter my spot.
Hanseatic Republics
Establishing Nation
I don't mind your area. I mind the ugly central area and obvious Virginia region. —but as said, there is no point going over it until Xen is back from Japan.
D
Danmark
Guest
I don't think it really matters that the map somehow resembles RL in some ways. Yes, some parts can be tweaked and gotten rid of/redrawn, particularly in unoccupied spots, and also potential reshaping or reorientating some of the continents or map borders a little (changes to occupied spots or colonies should be taken with consultation with active players if they are occupying them at the time) but, for me, it's not a big deal on the whole and I can generally live with most changes. But I would generally agree that we should stick to a formula, once changed, and not change it too often unless there is a strong reason to do so. Also, at least for the time being, the empty Himyar should be carved up into empty spots available for RP claims as should the southern part of the Occident.
Rheinbund
Established Nation
I agree with this.