The Old Map Critique & Discussion Thread

[Beautancus]

I support the nykarta-010 version. For lots of reasons, but it was the expanse of the Implarian, and the names of the seas that put it over the top for me. Discussion closed, everyone move along.

 

[Batavië]

I've been keeping out of this for a number of reasons. Mostly exams and such, but also because I've grown weary of the same old squabbles. My only comment is that I support Coro's Nykarta-10. I find it to have the right mixture of location of continents, seas and borders as well as a healthy dose of open ocean and small islands.

 

[Guiana]

Since co-operation has gone out the window, why don't we either keep the old map or everyone who wants submit their own map and let the forum vote on it.

 

[Great Engellex]

Co-operation has not gone out of the window, people are simply expressing their opinions.

 

[Guiana]

I think a little more than just opinions are being expressed.

 

[Saxe-Friesken and Polaben]

Nah, if more just opinions were being expressed I wouldn't have taken the time to edit Monty's spot more to his desires I suppose? Which is pretty much the only difference on this map from the last.

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[Akwesasne]

Now I really like that version!

 

[Danzig]

It's times like these when I thank God I am no longer the mapmaker.

 

[Wieserreich]

Question. Why does it seem that several EDF powers are obtaining potential obstacles between them and the open sea, all out of a sudden?

 

[Papist Solaren]

lol. The better question is "Why does it seem that all EDF states save Franken seem to be gaining a disproportionate amount of pixels" But no one seems to be raising this question. Also, Belmont should have a land connection to his southern coastline (the one bordering Lorraine) so as to prevent Lorrainian lake access to the exclave. I made the decision to do that consciously because it isolates the exclave more politically when infrastructure between the two is more endangered rather than sheltered in a closed lake. Otherwise, there would be no point in having an exclave except to bother your neighbors and provide you with more potential locations to flank a potential foe from. Unfair metagame geopolitics is unfair, and was therefore hampered.

Also, I don't get why the lake in Montelimar doesn't just flat out connect to the sea. It's not like Montelimar is going to roleplay it's significance anyways; he's expressed enough disgust at it. Let's not bother the prickly people and just try to get a map change out smoothly

Also, we've changed the Europe, Himyar, and Boreas areas. Can we change the Asian area? I would like Sinhai's southern coastline to be turned into additional landmass, and want Serindia to extend southwards. This could be done to create 2-3 new plots. I would rather not have any bizarre continental shapes, just keep the same single landmass shape, maybe with a Malay peninsula slapped on somewhere. However, I want smaller plots similar in scale to Vangala, Ratomkira, and others. Asian countries are not as pixel dependent as Boreas or Himyar.

 

[Clarenthia]

Nah, if more just opinions were being expressed I wouldn't have taken the time to edit Monty's spot more to his desires I suppose? Which is pretty much the only difference on this map from the last.

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Could my spot perhaps be returned to the way it currently is? I know my RP hasn't been plentiful these past few weeks, but I cannot approve of the changes to my map spot, however, the rest of the map is really nice.

 

[Polesia]

I really like Coro's latest proposal, although I agree with Xyrael and would appreciate more alterations to our Eastern regions. Some new and active neighbours would be nice

 

[Touzen]

Can we change the Asian area?

No. I don't want to have to care about this awful abomination of a thread.

 

[Großlausitz]

lol. The better question is "Why does it seem that all EDF states save Franken seem to be gaining a disproportionate amount of pixels" But no one seems to be raising this question. Also, Belmont should have a land connection to his southern coastline (the one bordering Lorraine) so as to prevent Lorrainian lake access to the exclave. I made the decision to do that consciously because it isolates the exclave more politically when infrastructure between the two is more endangered rather than sheltered in a closed lake. Otherwise, there would be no point in having an exclave except to bother your neighbors and provide you with more potential locations to flank a potential foe from. Unfair metagame geopolitics is unfair, and was therefore hampered.

Also, I don't get why the lake in Montelimar doesn't just flat out connect to the sea. It's not like Montelimar is going to roleplay it's significance anyways; he's expressed enough disgust at it. Let's not bother the prickly people and just try to get a map change out smoothly

Also, we've changed the Europe, Himyar, and Boreas areas. Can we change the Asian area? I would like Sinhai's southern coastline to be turned into additional landmass, and want Serindia to extend southwards. This could be done to create 2-3 new plots. I would rather not have any bizarre continental shapes, just keep the same single landmass shape, maybe with a Malay peninsula slapped on somewhere. However, I want smaller plots similar in scale to Vangala, Ratomkira, and others. Asian countries are not as pixel dependent as Boreas or Himyar.

I'm trying to be indifferent towards this parody of a good thread and discussion. But do carry on with fantasizing about how changing the map every fortnight helps rp activity.

 

[Saxe-Friesken and Polaben]

Also, I don't get why the lake in Montelimar doesn't just flat out connect to the sea. It's not like Montelimar is going to roleplay it's significance anyways; he's expressed enough disgust at it. Let's not bother the prickly people and just try to get a map change out smoothly

Also, we've changed the Europe, Himyar, and Boreas areas. Can we change the Asian area? I would like Sinhai's southern coastline to be turned into additional landmass, and want Serindia to extend southwards. This could be done to create 2-3 new plots. I would rather not have any bizarre continental shapes, just keep the same single landmass shape, maybe with a Malay peninsula slapped on somewhere. However, I want smaller plots similar in scale to Vangala, Ratomkira, and others. Asian countries are not as pixel dependent as Boreas or Himyar.

The last version of the map gave him pretty good sea access. Even cut the lake up so his land looks a bit better connecting to it. —as for the lake's removal entirely, or just opening the lake to the sea, it's more that the shit looks ugly as shit when you do it. I've played with it for an hour to no avail. I could play with it another hour, but frankly I feel this works much better, and even grants Monty more pixels. If the lake MUST be removed, I'd have to alter a bunch of things in that area including the reduction of some of monty's pixels. A lot of his increase was basis to making things look better and not have him look like a pencil bent through Gaul.

The big overall problem is that because I couldn't get spots in between players, I have to put them to the west of people where there are no spots. The challenge here is maintaining sea access to Franken and Monty. Something they've both maintained in this map by gaining pixels. As for having a land connection from Franken to his new left coastal territory, I cannot do that because it removes Vistrasia's connection to the sea. So I tried to open up the inlet more. Franken still has free access to the sea because he obviously controls that inlet/sound, so honestly this is just Franken gaining pixels, and if he dislikes that, well then I am more than willing to turn that left coast plot into a new vacant territory.

As for an area south of Sinhai, well... I can take a look at that if you want me to.

...and apparently Franken cannot read because this has nothing to do with activity. It has to do with opening plots for new players who wish to play as German, French, Dutch and other nations of European origin. The rest of the changes on the map are simply taking place because originally the plan was to make Himyar smaller because it was so big an nobody wanted to play there. Losses in Himyar, replaced by additions in Scanogermania. Instead, now we just have a ton more land. I'd still like to reduce Himyar further in landmass, but players seem to overwhelming reject that as too radical because you know... they use all that land. :roll:

...changes in Boreas are more to make the location look better. The continent is ugly as sin and nobody wants to settle there. The goal was to make it look better as impact the other players there as little as possible. As for the EDF conspiracy theories, look into some designer eyeglasses. EDF pixel sizes in all drafts have increased, and sea access has been attempted to be maintained in all drafts as well. I don't work well to demands. Work with me on things and I'll do my damn well best to try to accommodate your concerns though. Which is why I'd like to know Monty's latest opinion, so I know whether or not I need to try again.

 

[Keida]

Can I have a helicopter?


On the other hand, I think you guys are doing a great job and I just hope the shadowy rulers won't let all your work be for naught.

 

[Daracnia]

The better question is "Why does it seem that all EDF states save Franken seem to be gaining a disproportionate amount of pixels" But no one seems to be raising this question.

On the topic of nation size which seems to be a large issue in this thread (and has been for every reworking of the map I've been aware of), I think it's important to realize that pixels have no intrinsic value on the forums. The fact of the matter is that after a certain point, the gain of additional pixels actually dilutes your national "power," for lack of a better term. More landmass may look nice on a map, but in reality it means more political difficulties due to geopolitical divides in the population, more distance to cover for utilities and goods in transit, and greater vulnerability to invasion due to longer borders. A smaller country would naturally tend to be more unified and therefore more efficient at almost everything. Pragmatically, 100 million people spread out over an area the size of the US is a lot less effective for a number of reasons than the same amount of people in an area the size of France.

Pixel envy has never made much sense to me. After all, it's not the size that counts, it's how you use it.

 

[Papist Solaren]

No. I don't want to have to care about this awful abomination of a thread.

I don't want "Toyou" changed, just "Serindia". Changing Toyou messes too much with continental history, and everytime a player comes into contact with the Oikawasphere it always takes a lot of figuring out as to why they still exist as a separate country. Adding new plots adjacent to current Oikawasphere plots just compounds this problem.

Generating new plots south of Khalistan/Sinhai avoids this issue mostly while also increasing the number of potential Asian countries. Usually the Asian area is filled with deadweight claiming all possible spots - more plots means more deadweight needed to claim it, meaning its more likely one or the other of the dead states are being purged in the next update to make way for a new, potentially active, player. Otherwise, we just have the 2 plots north of Sinhai that're open; and both of those potentially come into conflict with Oikawasphere history.

In summation, don't make any drastic changes to the ordinarily stable Asian area, just a bit of extra land on the circle shaped subcontinent. If Xen still doesn't like it, we can run with the way it is, it's worked for a while and can continue working.

 

[Aquitania]

Though I will not take sides in the Map Wars, I do wish to make a suggestion for a couple of little alterations. One to the placement of the Otchi Free State, it kind of looked like a hat on the horses head. Second the lakes, they can actually explain the 'Horse Head'.

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[Mergogne]

i love the new thread title