Coro Era :- Various City Versions

[Socialist Commonwealth]

I also would like to note the fact that communists would hardly continue to keep imperialist structures in place. Even stalinist ones.

 

[Batavië]

@Revy You out of everyone will know that the De Graaf communism was not your typical communist regime.

@Jose You bring up valid points, however I have worked into the history of the island a unique neutrality. The island has historically been a neutral port of call for navies, traders and governments in the region. Batavië has few interests in the area beyond Pasambiek, so it could be considered a neutral player. If Oikawa wanted to snatch the island away after the Great War was over, it would breach the status quo and could have ignited a new war.

To be honest and fair, I think the possibility is there and I would at least like the opportunity to RP it a bit and see how it goes. I think Coro has granted me that. I never the less appreciate the genuine concern and the criticism.

 

[Jydsken-Østveg]

OOC-wise: I suppose it all depends with Pasambiek. Neutral or not it would have likely been attacked by Xen in order to get rid of all communists in the East. That would have just been his doctrine. Although I think you could find a way to keep it and that would involve you getting involved in the Great War in 1947 or so on my side after the Communist Revolution, after Xen attacks the island. You could have it stationed as your "Oahu" of sorts, full of naval ships and fighters and a major battle could have taken place where Xen's invasion fleet was halted on the beaches or something. Losses were so high on both sides a peace was signed in 1953 or something that made Pasambiek the neutral "free-port" that it is today. Xen's defeat if anything could have signed why this war was coming to an end in the Eastern Hemisphere as well. Regardless, we'd need to work those things out. Additionally, the notion of a Communist government being unable to hold colonies seems a bit far fetched to me. Simply based on the experience of the Soviets and how wide spread their operations were IRL.

 

[Batavië]

That idea is something to think about, although I really wanted to avoid the great war. My history has had me out of it. I'll figure out those details later. Point is, there is a way to make it work.

 

[Polesia]

I am pretty sure claiming islands for second nations that are essentially colonies goes against the (unwritten) rules.

 

[Socialist Commonwealth]

@Revy You out of everyone will know that the De Graaf communism was not your typical communist regime.

Yes, but why and how? It's not like it's so super popular with your average left-wing supporter to have an ideology that is socialist, except not for the imperialism.

What I'm trying to say is: your average leninist party-socialists are not some freaking conspiracy that tells people "ho ho, freedom and socialism for all and let's end imperialism too" and secretely wishes to do things differently. They genuinely believe in these ideals and it is their intention to achieve all these lofty goals. There are a number of factors that interfere with that in RL history, from military structures and counter-revolution to flawed strategies like the integration of the old beuraucracy.

To cut things short and not become unnecessarily complicated: socialist movements are generally willing to let colonies go. In the history of the Russian Revolution this happened partly, while other regions that felt as nations of their own could not gain independence. The reasons for that were the fact that Russia was integrating its colonies in their mainland and there was no clear seperation between them. Within these colonies, revolutionaries were often quite as present as elsewhere. Furthermore, the whites did not make any seperation between mainland russia and regions like Georgia, meaning that there were military reasons to not cede control over territories if it were established by the reds. Some economic reasons were present too, especially in regards to the Ukraine and territories the Transsibirian railroad was passing through.

None of these reasons really counts for your case. I'm not saying its entirely impossible, but please come up with a good explanation other than "they're not really commies".

 

[Warre]

So as 304# disappeared and I reassessed some of the RP ideas I have, as well as some of the history of Warre ideas I have, assuming there's not going to be a huge change in the map as far as this all goes [which is why I stopped posting IC things before], I'd like to request the map plot 409, particularly and hopefully with the intent of including Qirwan in/with the plot, as Hajr suggested

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as it'd be an ideal point for my nation to have expanded onto the coast in ancient times and an ideal center [to me] for the High Kingdom to exist in.

I've still got a few things with Oltremare to work out, and assuming I can even find any information about Eireann, with it's player as well.

I'll have a flag, and more posts, soon enough. I'm working on those things and on a few historical things, alongside Jose-

 

[Hesperia]

I second NCR, it's simply extremely unlikely for a communist government to maintain a colony. That's the type of PR not even North Korea would want, because it goes against everything Marxist ideology ever preached. There is no way they could talk their way out of it, assuming they'd even want to, because NCR is correct that many communists seriously believed in their ideals, and that included giving liberty to colonies immediately.

 

[Jydsken-Østveg]

I second NCR, it's simply extremely unlikely for a communist government to maintain a colony. That's the type of PR not even North Korea would want, because it goes against everything Marxist ideology ever preached. There is no way they could talk their way out of it, assuming they'd even want to, because NCR is correct that many communists seriously believed in their ideals, and that included giving liberty to colonies immediately.

I find this difficult to gauge and seems more like an aw... communists support freedom speech. Just the kind of crap I'd expect to come from Castro's mouth himself. That said, there is no precedent on this sort of thing.

The Soviets never really maintained colonies because they had none. Places they conquered endured Russification. See: Königsberg, Baltics, Ukraine...

Others they deported the native populous and turned into Russian gulags. See: Sakhalin.

On top of this, places like the PRC, still claim Taiwan.

So while just saying, lol commies love colonial freedom (which is true according to their foreign policy, ala their policies in the UN vs British Colonies) they never had to deal with it themselves, and their own track record involving their own territory show brutal tactics to force integration. Interestingly enough, iirc, many Ukrainians upon the eve of independence referred to their country as an exploited colony.

Therefore I believe a proper, and well RP'd scenario could actually be achieved. That said, as currently projected by Drei (

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)I cannot accept the island to be mapped. There will need to be changes and better definition to how the island was maintained a Batavian holding rather than lolwasignored and it existed peacefully. This notion isn't practical in the highly anti-communist Orient.

 

[Mergogne]

I wouldn't say China's claim over Taiwan is an exercise in colonialism... And China isn't exactly a communist ideologue.

 

[Calidia]

I was wondering if it was possible that I could have one of the islands under me which now belong to Shinryeo. I requested this back when Dai Viet was still around, but I don't think I got an answer, if I did then I must have missed it.

I'd contact Shinryeo about it but I think I'll have to wait a long time for a response.

I got a rp in my head which would require me to have an island. But naturally its your choice (mods+mapmaker or whoever makes the call).

EDIT: This one would do just fine

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[Socialist Commonwealth]

The Soviets never really maintained colonies because they had none. Places they conquered endured Russification. See: Königsberg, Baltics, Ukraine...

The difference being though that we are talking about colonies that exist in the moment of revolution - not about later conquests by an already established stalinist totalitarian state/degenerated workers state.

 

[Hesperia]

(Yada, yada, yada)

Soviet Union: not colonies, but originally part of the Russian empire, and thus, according to the CPSU's logic, legitimately included. Taiwan: same shit.

Read the program of any Western communist party ever. See their opinion on colonialism and what to do with colonies.

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. Then make that claim again.

 

[Jydsken-Østveg]

Well reading it like that... originally part of Batavian Empire, legitimately included? Aside from distance from mainland, I don't see much of a difference. The one major difference is demographics. So if he were to change the demographics, then he's in an acceptable position?

As we've always said things can be explained via a good RP explanation on the map... you've always said that yourself Kapi, and I'm trying to stick to that.

 

[Batavië]

This isn't a second country, it is an addition to my one country, so it is going to add an element not seen right now. I like being realistic and I think this can be, with some tweaking. I have a feeling most people are so against it because of distance and because of the 'land grab' feel of it. I don't have a history of land grabbing and coro made this system. I think it will add to RP here, not take away from it.

 

[Warre]

So as 304# disappeared and I reassessed some of the RP ideas I have, as well as some of the history of Warre ideas I have, assuming there's not going to be a huge change in the map as far as this all goes [which is why I stopped posting IC things before], I'd like to request the map plot 409, particularly and hopefully with the intent of including Qirwan in/with the plot, as Hajr suggested

You must be registered for see links

as it'd be an ideal point for my nation to have expanded onto the coast in ancient times and an ideal center [to me] for the High Kingdom to exist in.

I've still got a few things with Oltremare to work out, and assuming I can even find any information about Eireann, with it's player as well.

I'll have a flag, and more posts, soon enough. I'm working on those things and on a few historical things, alongside Jose-

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I'm aware that I'm supposed to be including a placement on the map for my nation's cities, and naming a few of them. There you go, and 'Caithair na Lumina' is the capital city, for reference. I didn't have a symbol to signify that properly.

The nation's official, legal name is 'The Ard Riocht na Warre', or High Kingdom of Warre.

 

[Hesperia]

Well reading it like that... originally part of Batavian Empire, legitimately included? Aside from distance from mainland, I don't see much of a difference. The one major difference is demographics. So if he were to change the demographics, then he's in an acceptable position?

As we've always said things can be explained via a good RP explanation on the map... you've always said that yourself Kapi, and I'm trying to stick to that.

That's why I'm very interested in the way Drei attempts to explain how a communist country would have held on to a colony, something which is extremely unlikely.

 

[Tyvia]

but I would've invaded the colony the second the nation went communist, logically speaking.

 

[Batavië]

but I would've invaded the colony the second the nation went communist, logically speaking.

Why would you invade it once it became communist? It had for centuries prior been a reliable trading post and neutral port and the island government remained almost entirely untouched. Hitler didn't invade Switzerland because it was more valuable to his goals as independent and neutral than part of his domains. This is similar, but on a much smaller scale. Either way, Andaluz, I would like to discuss a more detailed history in order to figure it all out properly.

 

[Tyvia]

because death is healthier than communism.

and also, since when does opportunism need an excuse beyond opportunism.