The Old Map Critique & Discussion Thread

[Hesperia]

Coro, I really don't like your latest effort. Toilet material, I'm sorry to say.

 

[Papist Solaren]

Coro, I really don't like your latest effort. Toilet material, I'm sorry to say.

Why?

Also, Fisherman's Sea got moved! lol. Also, noticed that an equator running through Serindia would give proper climate zones to the Europe area, fantastic work. It'd also give Kapi his continent spanning desert, though maybe not where he wanted. The proper application of mountains would fix that though.

 

[Khalistan]

I added the Implarian Islands as you asked, I closed up the Himyar Bay, and went ahead and continued the rework I had been doing on Boreas.

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[Great Engellex]

I like and support Coro's rework 100%, though I prefer the more central version more.

Also, I have to say Khali - the rework you have put forward for Boreas and Himyar has the edited land formations look artificial, Coro's work looks naturally formed, particularly Western Himyar.

 

[Papist Solaren]

I like Khalistan's map some, but my main problem is that if a lat-long grid were to be put on it, almost all the countries would be in the subtropical climate zones - and if we were to realistically believe our RP world climate, we'd be living in an ice age given that the Francophone region operates on the idea that they have a rainy cold winter and warm summer - impossible given that their latitude and water exposure means they'd either be a desert like Mexico, or humid subtropical like Alabama. Ok, I won't ramble on about geography. Suffice to say, I just find the current worlds lat-long to be very unappealing. If Khalistan's Himyar were pushed a bit further south, and the Francophone region angled more north it'd be more realistic I feel.

 

[Warre]

Khali, your rework of Boreas is really ugly. The plots bordering me go from 'kinda ugly' to 'small, fugly, and absolutely unappealing'. I don't like it at all. In fact, I'm vehemently against it. To the point I'd probably quit the damn game if it happened, because instead of me maybe not getting neighbors, I'd definitely never get neighbors. Not only are the edits you made artificial, they're also aestically unappealing, and have no apparent forethought over if the plot you're creating is likely to be appealing or not. Brettaine's spot hasn't been touched since he came in and started RPing then poofed, and #101/B:#02/Mercia is a spot which has only ever had people in it because the person neighboring it dragged a friend into it, first by Freiheit to get himself an IC military ally beside it, and then by me because I was tired of waiting for people to maybe give me a southern neighbor so I could begin RP with some level of history other than 'proposed crusades when we have no borders.'

So as I've said before, please don't touch Boreas, let Coro or me or Sinhai do it, you obviously don't care about the visual appeal of anything north of the Aquitania line. And I'm not trying to pick a fight, or flame, or make you think I don't want to be your friend. I do want to be your friend, but I'm speaking my mind, and as is true of my ilk, I'm brutally honest and unpadding in my opinion. If your edits were to go through, I might as well quit the game, because I'll never have a non-NPC neighbor.

 

[Papist Solaren]

I wouldn't go that far, Khalistan's been a helpful contributor - seems a little harsh. Also, the Mercia spot would have been a fun spot for anyone wanting to play a colonial rancher nation/Boer nation - inland and with little sea access. The fact that the natives are Celts does take away from the exotic-factor. Also, his Western Himyar plots, while not making sense tectonically (you'd need a lot of plates and faults to create what's happening there) I don't see how his Boreas plots are unappealing. The greatest problems the current Boreas has thus far is that 1. It's basically a Europe away from Europe, 2. It's plots are too large to generate the sort of community the actual Europe region has. It's not so much how the people got there, but that they're absolutely bored because there's only 3 other people on the continent to play with.

Also, I wasn't a huge fan of the scythe looking peninsula. Thus far, Coro's work has been my favorite though. And that's entirely because I'm a geography major who's nutso about keeping in tune with realistic climate zones. Also, if we're going to have huge gaps south of Himyar, throw in an Antarctica continent so we can have some international land to put research facilities and such on. Then we can actually say polar ice caps exist.

 

[Warre]

Xyr, being that I was speaking from my point of view, I'm inclined to dissect what you replied with, and give my counter point, and the reason why I said what I said.

Also, the Mercia spot would have been a fun spot for anyone wanting to play a colonial rancher nation/Boer nation - inland and with little sea access. The fact that the natives are Celts does take away from the exotic-factor.

And the number of people who exist in such a way are at what level? Beyond that, I as a player am not allowed to display disgust at that, and having colonists as neighbors in both directions? A 'colonial Rancher/Boer nation' in the way you said is appealing to very few people, and even those who'd RP such a nation would refuse to RP it in that spot because it's so far north, so likely to have been an 'older' settlement, and so likely to be blockaded in the event of a war. The Mercia spot has problems on it's own naturally, not to account for the BS he did, making one of the plots actually fully inland, while not big enough to make sense of it.

I don't see how his Boreas plots are unappealing.

You're not in Boreas, or a person affected by it, or a person likely to make a nation in Boreas, so how could you? The fact is, let's combine in the factors that make up a those plots. One, they're small, comparative to some of the Scanogermanian nations, perhaps, but that's not the deal. The appeal to Boreas plots for many is that they are huge, or sizable with sizable coast, so even if they have to play a colonist [you'll note I'm the only person in Boreas who is not playing a colonist nation], they're not both a 'crappy offshoot of the real nation' and a 'tiny crappy offshoot of the real nation'.

Boreas plots aren't too large to generate any kind of community that the actual Europe region has, they're too far away. Notice there's two relatively empty map spot from the person most likely to be active in RP and the other three Boreas nations, each of which share borders and could easily RP and form a community out of their RP, just choose not to.

As a matter of fact, it's all but a prerequisite, with nearly every nation in Boreas being a colonial, for every Boreasic nation to have a bit of coast. How did they get to where they're at without it, or continue trading and not becoming an isolate? All his version does is make an inland plot, make the 'mercia plot' cut in half in the process and take away from whatever slight appeal it might have, and create a clustered, crumpled, complicated, and croweded set of peninsulas and coastlines, all the while by making sure not to tilt the peninsula in any way to go near making his friends get less coast, or have to have a new possible neighbor.

It's not so much how the people got there, but that they're absolutely bored because there's only 3 other people on the continent to play with.

See above statement. They're not 'bored because there's only 3 other people on the continent to play with [there's four or five as the Intermarum is also on Boreas in the form of it's claimed territory from the former Freiheit]; but rather they're bored because they don't RP and refuse to generate conflict between their nations simply because they don't want to or think it'll make them weak or something. They're bored because they don't want to open their nation up to have a weakness or bit of strife, and because they simply choose not to RP.

I'm still, 100% for Coros, and 200% against Khalistan's redesign of Boreas. To reiterate my points in case it gets TL;DR for anyone who isn't Sinhai.

1) Boreasic plots have the appeal of being huge, and only that appeal, to the majority of players who are new here. By playing a Boreasic nation, unless they plan on playing celts [lol fat chance], they're going to be a colony/second version of their homeland, and the only appeal that keeps them from whining and bawing for a new map spot in Scanogermania is that they're big.
2) The map spots do not create any real new neighbors for half of the current continental population, and there are no adverse affects on them at all. Aquitania is the only one of the three EDFers who gets more neighbors [the two potential new neighbors turning into a whopping three potential new neighbors, but all obviously weaker than Aquitania because of pixels!], and I don't get any at all, I just get what was a nice clean and clear southern bay without crazy islandettes to dodge turning into a clusterfuck of islands and peninsulas in my way.
3) Rather than make the 'green sea' make sense by pointing the growth of these new plots down into it, he chose to make the already crowded area around the north sea all the more crowded.

 

[Mergogne]

GOD DAMMIT CAN'T YOU ALL JUST GET ALONG it's just a map ;___;

 

[Confederal Republics]

This is NSEurope, what did you expect?

 

[Polesia]

GOD DAMMIT CAN'T YOU ALL JUST GET ALONG it's just a map ;___;

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[Khalistan]

@Warre: The map was an attempt to incorporate your proposal and worked on an improved map last night, but since you now you have expressed your disgust with my work, you can quietly ignore it if you want.

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[Khemia]

@Warre: The map was an attempt to incorporate your proposal and worked on an improved map last night, but since you now you have expressed your disgust with my work, you can quietly ignore it if you want.

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lol i think that looks like a big "fuck you good sir"

 

[Great Engellex]

@Warre: The map was an attempt to incorporate your proposal and worked on an improved map last night, but since you now you have expressed your disgust with my work, you can quietly ignore it if you want.

You still haven't addressed the concerns we have with your map proposal, and, I don't mean to expect them in your new map, but, you haven't commented on it.

The fact is, Coro's looks incredibly natural, and, thus more pleasing on the eye. I am no geog nut, like Sin, but I do believe your proposal would be a big step backwards for the forum if implemented.

Also, what is with the big-ass map spot in Boreas?

 

[Warre]

Yeah, it does. Khalistan, before I considered you a possible friend, but if you want to troll like that from my serious concerns, then you can expect no respect from me ever. You could've taken my version of Boreas and left it be, but instead- because I supported Coro's redesigns, you decided to go 'lol fuck you Warr', with your previous proposal before this.

So once again, wtf does it matter to you if the nations above Aquitania are one way or another? Quit redesigning them. Seriously, you've not addressed a single concern I had, and because I won't stop being on your ass about you giving your friends pixels without addressing my concerns, you decide to be a dick, and drop the [unnatural] plots you made instead for a huge ass plot below me, as an obvious 'well fuck you then Warr, lololol harhar.'

 

[Khalistan]

lol i think that looks like a big "fuck you good sir"

It wasn't!!!! It was just that if Warre didn't like it I would perfer the quiet rejection than the insults as I was not doing anything but my idea.

You still haven't addressed the concerns we have with your map proposal, and, I don't mean to expect them in your new map, but, you haven't commented on it.

The fact is, Coro's looks incredibly natural, and, thus more pleasing on the eye. I am no geog nut, like Sin, but I do believe your proposal would be a big step backwards for the forum if implemented.

Also, what is with the big-ass map spot in Boreas?

These are proposals for the shape of the map not a finalized version. As for the big empty spot, it was to allow for suggestions on where the size of new mapspot in the area.

Yeah, it does. Khalistan, before I considered you a possible friend, but if you want to troll like that from my serious concerns, then you can expect no respect from me ever. You could've taken my version of Boreas and left it be, but instead- because I supported Coro's redesigns, you decided to go 'lol fuck you Warr', with your previous proposal before this.

So once again, wtf does it matter to you if the nations above Aquitania are one way or another? Quit redesigning them. Seriously, you've not addressed a single concern I had, and because I won't stop being on your ass about you giving your friends pixels without addressing my concerns, you decide to be a dick, and drop the [unnatural] plots you made instead for a huge ass plot below me, as an obvious 'well fuck you then Warr, lololol harhar.'

Though I might not have worded it right, I was not trying to insult you, but based on the rather vulgar comments you had made concerning my work, my rework on Boreas can be ignored.

 

[Warre]

Nothing about my comments were vulgar, they were blunt and to the point, and quite a few of them were aimed at Sinhai's own statement that 'smaller plots in Boreas would increase RP potential', for three of the four PC nations in Boreas, plot size is no issue, as they had neighbors already.

 

[Khalistan]

Then I guess we have different standards for what is considered vulgar. That aside, my rework of Boreas was with you in mind, trying to create for you neighbors with just the unoccupied spot, but I could see it was not going to work so last night I increased the area between you and Aquitania and was leaving it blank so individual mapspots could be added at leisure, but after reading what you wrote, I posted what I had and let you decide if you liked my idea or rejected it, and considering what you have written since, I will consider it rejected and I won't make anymore suggestions.

 

[Mergogne]

seriously people

 

[Akwesasne]

Can we have a map now?