Potenzan Arthur?
It's actually supposed to be Port Arturo, with the San Luca Islands rather than Potenzan San Luca.
Is there a problem with Port Arturo?
The Old Map Critique & Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Jydsken-Østveg
- Start date
It's actually supposed to be Port Arturo, with the San Luca Islands rather than Potenzan San Luca.
Is there a problem with Port Arturo?
Tyvia
Establishing Nation
It could be the Russian acronym. Kyiv'skya Narodnaya Revolutsonaya Respublika, or whatever the fuck he is.
Transabina
Establishing Nation
Sounds about right, narod being either "people" or "nation," both in the sense of a unified culture group.
Oneida
Established Nation
A little peeved that my entire west coast was taken away without even a mention of it. Also, although significantly less justifiable, a little peeved that there is no large southern continent that would result in Auraria being a cheaper option to trade goods, but like I guess it was wrong to assume that.
Getting the map on to the globe involved a lot of overhaul and adjustments that might have altered things in many nations. Please try to understand that it was a difficult change, and perhaps give a basic outline of what you want given/returned to you now that your assumptions were wrong.
On the note of overhaul and adjustments, a south pole will be added sometime soon and we will be looking to fill those massive ocean gaps with islands.
Warre
Establishing Nation
- Joined
- May 13, 2010
- Messages
- 1,384
- Nick
- Warr
I think it looks good, the globe map, aside from the fact that for some reason everything east of Kyiv and west of the northeastern-most of Oikawa's 'Ring of Fire' islands, seems to revert to RL map, it doesn't load.
Also, one of my islands was mixed up as one of Zeke's, and instead I was given two islands closed to West March/Former West March.
Also, one of my islands was mixed up as one of Zeke's, and instead I was given two islands closed to West March/Former West March.
Oneida
Established Nation
I've notice the lack of alterations to any other nation with the exception of skewing due to putting a 2D image and trying to make it 3D. The least that can be done is removing that completely random map plot to the west of me so I can have my coast back
No Implarian contact? :[
That's reasonable, and I'm sorry the crossover to the globe and all had the effect it did.
Oneida
Established Nation
As much as I'd like to have one, I made the decision I did because of two reasons:
1) Even if I had an implarian contact, it probably wouldn't make a difference in RP anyway and serve no functional purpose. Especially because it's not a long trip to just go around the southern tip of the continent.
2) with potty, davy, and I in the area, I feel like we can foster some good RP and get activity in the region. To keep growth going, there needs to be mapspots available for new people, so I decided to not remove or tamper with the ones available in the hopes that future players will inhabit them. In the end, neighbors will be more beneficial than a western coast.
That's still a few hundred kilometers we are talking about though - that makes quite the difference. But in the end that's too bad, I was kinda hoping to actually see the Implarian develop into a thing, since there's obviously a far greater incentive for Touzen to interact with nations that border a common ocean. A gateway between two regions that have until now not exchanged much, basically.
Ah we'll, there will be ways.
Hanseatic Republics
Establishing Nation
Problems with Østveg to the Globe: With the addition of the globe and the beginnings of real distances I've walked into a problem. I have a population density that is too high for what I am trying to RP.
First of all, what am I trying to RP? Østveg is meant to be a spacious territory where communication was always difficult due to distances and the terrain. As the land is often quite difficult to farm on, the population never grew exception quickly, and various plagues and poverty kept the population limited as well. Thus, we have a large country with a low population and a low population density. The point was to inhabit a country where protecting the borders would be damn near impossible. Therefore the explanation in my country's nice jet engine program and the air force being seen as the way to equalize the defensive problems the nation faces. As a result the Army is terrible and the Navy is just now starting to grow with the first aircraft carriers (second hand) put into service not long ago.
Culturally, the separation in distance created a place where community is important and town halls and local discussion is important. You'll note my Christmas RP post dealt with town hall importance during the succession crisis. Additionally, this puts a huge focus on the nation's urban centers as you'll note the dealings in Jorvik, Ulriken and Kristiania far outweighed Hammerfest for example. Each region also had it's own take on the crisis, Hammerfest wanted a continuation, Jorvik wanted the new Monarchy, Ulriken wanted the Republic, and Kristiania burned down in riots and disagreement. The point being that separation created differences and information and opinions spread slowly. Those privy to information had the most power.
So where does this cause a problem? I feel the problem is that Østveg is now a tiny country. Length wise, it's about the length of the United Kingdom but it's width is only half at the greatest point. So let's say it's roughly half of the size for convenience sake, although I would contend I'm smaller than that. (As I need Google Earth Pro to get an area it's hard to say for sure anyway)
This gives Østveg an area of 47,030 sq. miles. To get population density you take the population and divide it by the square miles. With a rough estimate of 14 million people on the Austwegian mainland that gives me 297.68 people per square mile. This is quite a bit. It's one person off of France and Portugal in terms of RL population density. This was also terrible news to me where I envisioned a nation with a population density closer to RL Norway which has roughly 35 people per square mile. Suddenly, Østveg is quite the cosmopolitan nation.
Now population density isn't the only problem. The distances between my major cities is another. After measuring all the distances[SUP]1[/SUP] on Google Earth NSEurope Edition™ I have my largest cities (Kristiania and Jorvik) now 74 miles away. Interestingly enough. This is perfect! I imagined them quite close to each other. Yet, Ulriken in the "far south" is only 130 miles away. The distance between Seattle to and Vancouver, BC is 147 miles. With how close these two cities are, they share a lot of traits and culture. Now how is Ulriken supposed to hold a decidedly different viewpoint on the Succession Crisis, when they share the same culture and are relatively close to each other? They are so close that they become one sphere of information and culture. The only way to make a landmass to prevent this would be to erect the Himalayas to divide the country. This isn't really practical of a solution either. (A map to show distances below)
So to now achieve my desired population density, I want to do a few things. First of all, I'd like to place more distance from point "a" to point "b". I'd like to do this with an addition to my territory. In this example (seen below) my average distance goes up significantly. Same number of cities because I'd have the same number of people. Yet, still I'm not solving my problem, because I figure I'd roughly be increasing my total area by about 2.25 in this scenario. So let's stay that would make me the United Kingdom plus half so I'm not being a total jerk by going further in the number basis than what I actually think. So let's call it a total area of 94,060x1.5 which is 141,090 sq miles. Calculate the density to then be 99.2 people per sq mile. I'm STILL, about 70 people per square mile off. So even if you think I'm doing the estimates wrong, and really it's closer to 35 people per square mile, at best then with this land addition I'm getting exactly what I want in terms of density. So, here I'd like to ask if anyone opposes my addition here to ATTEMPT to get my population density to a level closer to what I imagined. (I will note that if my colonial RP is approved, very little would change as according to my concept, the population there would be far less than a million. Taking a million off of my population calculates to about 92 people per sq. mile.)
Lastly, I'd like to note that the distance from the highest northern part of Østveg to the lowest southern part is 830 miles with this addition. This is still a smaller distance than the over 1000 miles in distance that RL Norway has. I also think this addition would give me the added benefit of no longer looking like Norway in RP. (The current map has this distance measured at 667 miles)
Questions, comments, concerns? Agreement? Disagreement? I also highly suggest everyone else check out their distances and make sure everything still adds and works appropriately to their RP concerns.
[SUP]1[/SUP] - All distances were measured by hand. Variations can occur on each measurement of roughly 5-10 miles at most.
[MENTION=39]The Fennian Union[/MENTION]
First of all, what am I trying to RP? Østveg is meant to be a spacious territory where communication was always difficult due to distances and the terrain. As the land is often quite difficult to farm on, the population never grew exception quickly, and various plagues and poverty kept the population limited as well. Thus, we have a large country with a low population and a low population density. The point was to inhabit a country where protecting the borders would be damn near impossible. Therefore the explanation in my country's nice jet engine program and the air force being seen as the way to equalize the defensive problems the nation faces. As a result the Army is terrible and the Navy is just now starting to grow with the first aircraft carriers (second hand) put into service not long ago.
Culturally, the separation in distance created a place where community is important and town halls and local discussion is important. You'll note my Christmas RP post dealt with town hall importance during the succession crisis. Additionally, this puts a huge focus on the nation's urban centers as you'll note the dealings in Jorvik, Ulriken and Kristiania far outweighed Hammerfest for example. Each region also had it's own take on the crisis, Hammerfest wanted a continuation, Jorvik wanted the new Monarchy, Ulriken wanted the Republic, and Kristiania burned down in riots and disagreement. The point being that separation created differences and information and opinions spread slowly. Those privy to information had the most power.
So where does this cause a problem? I feel the problem is that Østveg is now a tiny country. Length wise, it's about the length of the United Kingdom but it's width is only half at the greatest point. So let's say it's roughly half of the size for convenience sake, although I would contend I'm smaller than that. (As I need Google Earth Pro to get an area it's hard to say for sure anyway)
This gives Østveg an area of 47,030 sq. miles. To get population density you take the population and divide it by the square miles. With a rough estimate of 14 million people on the Austwegian mainland that gives me 297.68 people per square mile. This is quite a bit. It's one person off of France and Portugal in terms of RL population density. This was also terrible news to me where I envisioned a nation with a population density closer to RL Norway which has roughly 35 people per square mile. Suddenly, Østveg is quite the cosmopolitan nation.
Now population density isn't the only problem. The distances between my major cities is another. After measuring all the distances[SUP]1[/SUP] on Google Earth NSEurope Edition™ I have my largest cities (Kristiania and Jorvik) now 74 miles away. Interestingly enough. This is perfect! I imagined them quite close to each other. Yet, Ulriken in the "far south" is only 130 miles away. The distance between Seattle to and Vancouver, BC is 147 miles. With how close these two cities are, they share a lot of traits and culture. Now how is Ulriken supposed to hold a decidedly different viewpoint on the Succession Crisis, when they share the same culture and are relatively close to each other? They are so close that they become one sphere of information and culture. The only way to make a landmass to prevent this would be to erect the Himalayas to divide the country. This isn't really practical of a solution either. (A map to show distances below)
You must be registered for see links
So to now achieve my desired population density, I want to do a few things. First of all, I'd like to place more distance from point "a" to point "b". I'd like to do this with an addition to my territory. In this example (seen below) my average distance goes up significantly. Same number of cities because I'd have the same number of people. Yet, still I'm not solving my problem, because I figure I'd roughly be increasing my total area by about 2.25 in this scenario. So let's stay that would make me the United Kingdom plus half so I'm not being a total jerk by going further in the number basis than what I actually think. So let's call it a total area of 94,060x1.5 which is 141,090 sq miles. Calculate the density to then be 99.2 people per sq mile. I'm STILL, about 70 people per square mile off. So even if you think I'm doing the estimates wrong, and really it's closer to 35 people per square mile, at best then with this land addition I'm getting exactly what I want in terms of density. So, here I'd like to ask if anyone opposes my addition here to ATTEMPT to get my population density to a level closer to what I imagined. (I will note that if my colonial RP is approved, very little would change as according to my concept, the population there would be far less than a million. Taking a million off of my population calculates to about 92 people per sq. mile.)
Lastly, I'd like to note that the distance from the highest northern part of Østveg to the lowest southern part is 830 miles with this addition. This is still a smaller distance than the over 1000 miles in distance that RL Norway has. I also think this addition would give me the added benefit of no longer looking like Norway in RP. (The current map has this distance measured at 667 miles)
You must be registered for see links
Questions, comments, concerns? Agreement? Disagreement? I also highly suggest everyone else check out their distances and make sure everything still adds and works appropriately to their RP concerns.
[SUP]1[/SUP] - All distances were measured by hand. Variations can occur on each measurement of roughly 5-10 miles at most.
[MENTION=39]The Fennian Union[/MENTION]
Serbovia
Establishing Nation
coro, hold of your horse a bit. I talked to Xen about it and there were mentions of resizing Eurodisney to what it was before, which I believe would also solve that problem. Having said that, Fennia also has the same problem as I historically RPed a higher population than you (without the Protected Territories) so the Fennian population density looks really, really dumb.
Hanseatic Republics
Establishing Nation
The re-size already occurred. That's why Revy looks so small now for example. Heck a lot of the Himyari nation areas look small now, because they were also resized to be small, and that's why a lot of them grew to include new borders.
But yes, with the advent of "distances" we have a big problem with populations and sizes of countries.
But yes, with the advent of "distances" we have a big problem with populations and sizes of countries.
There was a re-size in the regard that originally Eurodisney was *extremely* tiny on the map, because of the changes that were made to it a few months ago. What was done was restoring the size of the area to what it was previous to the size change in the summer of 2012. I'm not sure if Yanksy wants to make a general size change of the area again, but I'm inclined to think that he doesn't, which means that any individual concerns about the size of a plot should be put into the map discussions/application threads as usual (something akin to what Coro did perhaps). Already Eurodisney is a bit larger than the RL region its based upon and I don't think there is much leeway for any substantial increase in the size of the region in its entirety (as in, sizing up everything in Eurodisney at once). There were no additional changes to Himyar as part of turning the map globe-ready from as far as I know, though I do remember Himyar being resized in early 2012 or so because it was too big.
Expectations were going to be shattered and there would be confusion at the start as I predicted. Still, as I outlined in my post, there are instruments to voice concerns and petitions for redress. The overall shape of the map will not change anymore, but specific areas are probably up for debate with the mapmaker. Especially with you two people being insular, it should be easy as none of you object to changes to your general area.
Expectations were going to be shattered and there would be confusion at the start as I predicted. Still, as I outlined in my post, there are instruments to voice concerns and petitions for redress. The overall shape of the map will not change anymore, but specific areas are probably up for debate with the mapmaker. Especially with you two people being insular, it should be easy as none of you object to changes to your general area.
Warre
Establishing Nation
- Joined
- May 13, 2010
- Messages
- 1,384
- Nick
- Warr
Coro, you're no the only person this happened too, admittedly. With the arrival of the globe my expectations of size as to how big Tyrculir is were shattered a bit too, I figured it was big enough for there to be sizable areas of wilderness or forest even after centuries of settlement, and for there to be distance between settlements even upon the islands themselves as to make it reasonable for there to be more than one settlement on each island in the first place. Given, unlike the two of you I had yet to decide a population for my nation, given the globe made me go from around 2/3rds of Sylvania's size (as I am on the map) to about half, if I was to have a similar population density to him, which is likely? I would be able to have 15 Million people at maximum because I'm half his size. And I'd probably even have less than that because he RPs having several 'mega-cities', and I do not.
I think we all got shocks to our systems with the globe stuff, for some reason or another, and as some people have said 'Well it's not our fault the 2D image of the map was misleading'.
I think we all got shocks to our systems with the globe stuff, for some reason or another, and as some people have said 'Well it's not our fault the 2D image of the map was misleading'.
I can't believe I'm a tropical nation.
So, using Google Earth Pro, I finally discovered the size of Saaremaa, which is 341,651.07 square kilometers. At a population of 20 millions, the density is 58.53, which even if still is realistic, comparing to the other's... bust still around two times larger than what I expected... ah well, here comes a population decrease...